tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post1990426605488616581..comments2023-07-06T17:28:20.826+08:00Comments on Warong Pak Yeh: Lets debate on Karpal's "Criminal Law better than Hudud"pak yehhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08668033505038224891noreply@blogger.comBlogger90125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-4595639188328669072012-11-10T16:35:38.092+08:002012-11-10T16:35:38.092+08:00Rainy season busted my internet modem, I am back a...Rainy season busted my internet modem, I am back and kicking now.<br /><br />Well, MR WISE@pak yeh, all well said. <br />The first point, "economic wealth or amount of money he is able to generate within his life span".<br /><br />This is a logical fallacy. What I am earning now will not be the same as for the coming 15 to 20 years.<br /><br />For example, please let us know how much wealth you are able to generate within your life span?. Please remember, I am giving you a simple example with plenty of reasoning to back up your statement. Lets see how much sum you will be able to calculate and please let us know.<br /><br />Your second line of reasoning "Anyway the right formula shall be determined by debating the mater bt by showing proofs of the murdered's worth, and determined by the judge, like any secular law does "<br />is "subjected to debate" depending on your answer to my first question.<br /><br />And your third answer "Lawyers debate is key to an agreement, as per Quran 39:8 "Listen to all views. Choose the best.These are the guided,the intelligent." seems to run antiparallel to the blood money system currently practised in Saudi Arabia, the land of ISLAM.<br /><br />And please3x, dont say Saudi Arabia are not practising true ISLAM to evade my question.<br /><br />Facts to back up my statement:<br /><br />In Saudi Arabia, when a person has been killed or caused to die by another, the prescribed blood money rates are as follows:<br /><br />• 100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man <br />• 50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman <br />• 50,000 riyals if a Christian man <br />• 25,000 riyals if a Christian woman <br />• 6,666 riyals if a Hindu man <br />• 3,333 riyals if a Hindu woman. <br /><br />The rates for female victims is half that for male victims.<br /><br />Well I didn't see any debate being done here, simply rates set by ISLAMIC Government of Saudi Arabia for human life. Tell me, does human life rated according to his/her faith and gender.<br /><br />The fact is the so called blood money system is simply baseless and impractical to be adapted in a 21st century world. <br /><br />No law school in the world"with exception to ISLAMIC sphere" will teach you on subject on how to rate human life.<br /><br />And I want to stress again that I am against the death penalty, be it Islamic or secular.<br /><br />The only simple solution is to put all these hardcore criminals in Alcatraz like to island to eat and fend for themselves. They have to grow their own food and take care of their own prison which is their home now. This alleviates the burden on the government in spending money to support the prisoners in life sentences.Obiwankenobinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-21125994559669255372012-11-02T11:45:56.828+08:002012-11-02T11:45:56.828+08:00The fomular shall be the murdered's economic w...The fomular shall be the murdered's economic wealth or amount of money he is able to generate within his life span.Exceptions to this is by the agreement of the family of the murdered.<br /><br />Anyway the right formula shall be determined by debating the mater bt by showing proofs of the murdered's worth, and determined by the judge, like any secular law does.<br /><br />Lawyers debate is key to an agreement, as per Quran 39:8 "Listen to all views. Choose the best.These are the guided,the intelligent."pak yehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08668033505038224891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-42074098509780374742012-11-01T23:13:03.369+08:002012-11-01T23:13:03.369+08:00
I am against the death penalty. Be it secular la...<br /><br />I am against the death penalty. Be it secular law or islamic law.<br /><br />You mentioned about blood money in return of taking someones life.<br /><br />You still didnt answer my question how it is rated.<br /><br />Is it RM1, or RM11? or RM1 million?<br /><br />Who sets the rate?<br /><br />For example, lets say John Doe murdered any or your relatives .<br /><br />You choose to take compensation instead of death penalty on him.<br /><br />All I want to know is how much are you going to take in terms of monetary value for the death of your relative?<br /><br />It is a simple and straightforward question.<br /><br />Either you have the answer or you dont..<br /><br />If there is a rate prescribed , please enlighten all your blog visitors on that.<br /><br />I am pretty sure you wont be able to answer my question. The next wise thing to do is not approving any of my comments in your blog.<br /><br />Lets see how a wise man like you will answer my question. Good lock..Obiwankenobinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-41219738120883125852012-11-01T13:52:37.707+08:002012-11-01T13:52:37.707+08:00Dear obiwankenobi,
why all these questions.? Is it...Dear obiwankenobi,<br />why all these questions.? Is it not obvious. If you,the family want to kill the murderer you can,but Allah says to forgive is better, but off course some kind of punishment as per secular law, should be meted. The Quran references can be used as abrogation of all death penalty in Islamic law.<br />pak yehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08668033505038224891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-27002356243776126972012-10-31T21:00:53.502+08:002012-10-31T21:00:53.502+08:00What is the worth of someones life?
How it is rat...What is the worth of someones life?<br /><br />How it is rated?<br /><br /> Care to explain?<br /><br /> How do a freeman who murders a slave man punished?<br /><br />And vice versa, if a slave murders a freeman.. Is it the slave is murdered in retaliation or the slave have to bring forward a freeman to be sacrified?<br /><br />Care to explain?<br /><br /><br />"retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered"<br /><br />So are you suggesting revenge is blessing of almighty GOD?<br /><br />In that can, an eye for an eye makes everyone blind ? Rite?Obiwankenobinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-84764538929155503032012-10-31T20:57:57.263+08:002012-10-31T20:57:57.263+08:00What is the worth of someones life?
How it is rat...What is the worth of someones life?<br /><br />How it is rated?<br /><br /> Care to explain?<br /><br /> How do a freeman who murders a slave man punished?<br /><br />And vice versa, if a slave murders a freeman.. Is it the slave is murdered in retaliation or the slave have to bring forward a freeman to be sacrified?<br /><br />Care to explain?<br /><br /><br />"retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered"<br /><br />So are you suggesting revenge is blessing of almighty GOD?<br /><br />In that can, an eye for an eye makes everyone blind ? Rite?Obiwankenobinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-53608582930374965422012-10-29T09:37:46.315+08:002012-10-29T09:37:46.315+08:00Salam Obiwankenobi,
Blood money is money/compensa...Salam Obiwankenobi, <br />Blood money is money/compensation taken by the family of the murdered, in place of of the murderer's life.<br />Reference : AlQuran 2:178 "O you who belirf, retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered.The freeman for the freeman, the slave for the slave, the female for the female.And for him who is forgiven by his brother,procecution according to usage and payment to him, in kindness.This is an elevation and Mercy from your Lord. He who transgresses will have a painful doom".pak yehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08668033505038224891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-44406799143244483412012-10-28T20:19:07.243+08:002012-10-28T20:19:07.243+08:00What is this blood money stuff you are talking abo...What is this blood money stuff you are talking about? Can anyone here bother to explain how this system works? Is it based on Quran or what?ObiwanKenobinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-82816288485216529112012-09-13T15:55:54.553+08:002012-09-13T15:55:54.553+08:00Mat Kluang,
For proof of the ban/burn of the hadis...Mat Kluang,<br />For proof of the ban/burn of the hadis, refer to the next article. Try to disproof it. Otherwise you are contradicting Allah,his Mesenger,the Kalifahs and the sahabahs.pak yehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08668033505038224891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-4303770034488791692012-09-13T15:52:06.196+08:002012-09-13T15:52:06.196+08:00Anonymous said...
A person asked Abdullah bin Zaid...Anonymous said...<br />A person asked Abdullah bin Zaid"can you show me how Allah Messanger used to perform ablition.Abdullah Zaid reply in affirmative and asked for water.He poured it on his hands and washed them twice then he rinsed his mouth thrice and washed his nose with water thrice by putting water in it and blowing it out.He wash his face thrice and after that he washed hus forearms up o the elbows twice and thn passed his wet hands over his head from it front to its back and vice versa and then washed his feet up to ankles.Bukhari 143'<br />Pak Yeh ,how do you baned this hadith.?<br /><br />Pak Yehs reply.<br />There is no need for that hadis. The Quran 5:6 teaches abulution. Times of prayer is also stated in the Quran. The actions are taught by practice/tradition/culture, like how you learn to dance.pak yehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08668033505038224891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-40831692392974854952012-09-13T15:42:55.403+08:002012-09-13T15:42:55.403+08:00Dear sam 1528
Your comment have been undeleted.You...Dear sam 1528<br />Your comment have been undeleted.You think you have won this debate by using dead Tafsirs of Ibni Kathir ans blog links.??? What you have done is be a dog ie dogmatic to dead Ulamas teachings. Never mind, I let you win this battle. The real big war/big debate is ay the next article posted.<br />Go on and try to refute/debate it if you have the brains.Please dont ask dead Ulamas to debate me,okay.??? I have also provided a blog link that refutes your link.pak yehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08668033505038224891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-73947853921348376042012-09-04T02:21:51.682+08:002012-09-04T02:21:51.682+08:00Pak yeh.
Surah 2:6 Those who deny your message wil...Pak yeh.<br />Surah 2:6 Those who deny your message will not belive whether you warn them or not.<br /><br />2:7 God has sealed their hearts and hearing and their vision is veiled,a great punishment awaits them.<br /><br />2:8 Some people say"We believe in God and the Day of Judgment"but are not true believer.<br /><br />Pak Yeh I hope you are not one of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-83414717116031523432012-08-30T23:15:32.543+08:002012-08-30T23:15:32.543+08:00A person asked Abdullah bin Zaid"can you show...A person asked Abdullah bin Zaid"can you show me how Allah Messanger used to perform ablition.Abdullah Zaid reply in affirmative and asked for water.He poured it on his hands and washed them twice then he rinsed his mouth thrice and washed his nose with water thrice by putting water in it and blowing it out.He wash his face thrice and after that he washed hus forearms up o the elbows twice and thn passed his wet hands over his head from it front to its back and vice versa and then washed his feet up to ankles.Bukhari 143'<br /><br />Pak Yeh ,how do you baned this hadith.?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-45542416222615928312012-08-30T00:59:40.996+08:002012-08-30T00:59:40.996+08:00Pak Yeh ,Prophet Mohammad saw didnt banned hadith....Pak Yeh ,Prophet Mohammad saw didnt banned hadith.He told the compinions not to write hadith when the wahyu from Allah is not yet completed.Later when the wahyu was completed He give permmision to Ali Abu Talib to write his hadith.This is in view Islam has spread vary fast in Arab penisular and they need reference on how to perorm the correct ibadah.<br />Pak Yeh if billion of muslim ummah believe in Hadith you must a new Ulama in 20 century who said we cannot believe in Hadith.surah 31.6 nothing to do with banning hadith.Let me know which kitab tafsir you are refering,let see where is the mistake?Mat keluanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15921029091540051971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-2330285490495275252012-08-29T18:44:43.047+08:002012-08-29T18:44:43.047+08:00Mat Keluang,
Why must I believe in the hadis when ...Mat Keluang,<br />Why must I believe in the hadis when the prophet Mohammad baned it, and burned it. It is becaue of this ashab nuzul that the Quran 31:6 was revealed. Quran 31:6 is a prohibition of the hadis. Can you proof that lahwaj hadis is not the prophets sayings but idle talk,singing,music and entertainment as mistranslated by your dead Gurus.? If you cannot the you have lost the debate.pak yehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08668033505038224891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-89935710609445017752012-08-28T19:19:39.521+08:002012-08-28T19:19:39.521+08:00Pak Yeh.
Difficult to understand the Quran tafsir ...Pak Yeh.<br />Difficult to understand the Quran tafsir if you refuse to accept Hadith Sahih.<br /><br />Anyway how do you tafsir surah 109 Al kafirun .Mat keluanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15921029091540051971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-15901802569247166492012-08-28T19:19:18.050+08:002012-08-28T19:19:18.050+08:00a'kum pak yeh ,
This is your blog and your ru...a'kum pak yeh ,<br /><br />This is your blog and your rules. I would just say that you have been very disingenuous in your debate. You are just like a headless chicken chasing your backside.<br /><br />All of your absurd questions have been answered but you just choose to deny them and continue harping and whining on the same things without any counter argument.<br /><br />You call yourself a muslim who looks forward for a debate?? You just cannot handle a debate where facts are needed for an argument.<br /><br />Too bad , by censoring my response , you have lost. Its just you and your sour grapes. You wouldn't dare to debate on an open platform.sam1528https://www.blogger.com/profile/01382805827344948691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-17364901424365549112012-08-28T14:51:56.711+08:002012-08-28T14:51:56.711+08:00Dear sam1528.
Your comments are deleted because yo...Dear sam1528.<br />Your comments are deleted because you have not followed the procedures of debating point by point by CnP and answering all my questions. You have refused to counter debate points which I have refuted. Anyway what you have commented are repeats/broken records of your other comments and has become rubbish. Besides you dont know how to debate.<br />You are just giving some dead gurus opinion and links and saying that the dead gurus the link had debated my debates. <br />Imagine, dead ulamas can reply to my debate without even log in on to my blog.???<br />Ha,ha,ha. Dream on bro. Try to improve your debating skills first before you start debating again.<br />And try to use your own brains instead of dead guru's brains, okay.??? Kah,kah,kah.pak yehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08668033505038224891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-51673281031645762042012-08-28T14:31:24.117+08:002012-08-28T14:31:24.117+08:00Mat kluang said :
Pak yeh.
This ayat 31:6 refers s...Mat kluang said :<br />Pak yeh.<br />This ayat 31:6 refers specifically to an Nadr ibn al Harith who used to buy books containing the history of the persian king and read them to Quraysh in their nightly gathering and meetings.He used to say "This is better than what Muhammad recites to you"?<br /><br />Pak Yehs reply :<br />There is no proof that "This is better than what Muhammad recites to you" misleads others from Allahs path either in those times or at present.<br /><br />This debate is over unless somebody can debate my conclusion point by point.pak yehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08668033505038224891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-372676795240721122012-08-28T14:07:57.757+08:002012-08-28T14:07:57.757+08:00a'kum pak yeh
part 2 of 2
(3) The use of h...a'kum pak yeh <br /><br />part 2 of 2<br /><br /><br />(3) The use of hadith was not banned by Prophet Muhammad(saw). Where is your evidence?? Don't repeat your argument with the same hadith. It has been addressed per my reference and so far no counter argument from you. How did the sahabah taught the rituals of solah and the 2.5% zakah?? All these are captured in the hadiths. Again , a strawman argument from you about the so called mockery that Allah reduced the solah from 50 to 5. Has it not occurred to you that Allah knew upfront that Prophet Muhammad(saw) will request for reduction and such was agreed by Allah grace?? Pinpoint where is the so called greek mythology in the said hadith?? This is getting bizarre. You are not providing any counter argument but harping and whining.<br /><br />(4) This again expose the weakness in your logic. 'Sacred text' or book in arabic is kitaban , so don't try to bluff you way thru. You are trying to force 'beautiful message' to be 'unreliable hadith' utilizing antonyms. Then what about the word 'hadiths' in the 3 other verses Quran93:11 , Quran51:24 , Quran79:15?? Such approach like yours will never work as you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. We mainstream muslims will also look into the background of the verse (Quran31:6). The nuzul of it is that the pagans purchased singing girls to distract Prophet Muhammad(saw) dakwah per ibn Mas'ud. This is a statement from history. What do you mean it cannot be proven??<br /><br />You are going in circles chasing your backside. First you want to define 'hadith' in the context of the Quran. You have been caught trying to equivocate by claiming hadith = book apart from numerous meanings of the word per the different verses. Failure to do so , you now want to define hadith being universal accepted term of 'the sayings of Prophet Muhammad(saw)'. This argument is even worse , if you have any consistency in your argument , you are now claiming that the sahabahs distort Prophet Muhammad(saw) sayings. That means the Quran has also been distorted as the suhuf and mushaf was compiled after the demise of Prophet Muhammad(saw). Oral transmission was one facet of Quranic transmission , teaching and preservation. Such unbelievable foolhardy and illogical argument.<br /><br />All you have are illogical arguments <br />(1) hudood law is inferior based on SIS critique without actually comparing the bill<br />(2) hudood law is barbaric without knowledge of Islamic Jurisprudence<br />(3) that 'lahwal hadith' = unreliable / false hadith per your non logic of equating words utilizing logical fallacy in parallel with antonym of the word.<br /><br />You are really an engineer??? <br /><br />Lets see if you publish this response.sam1528https://www.blogger.com/profile/01382805827344948691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-30301040980608897952012-08-28T13:58:43.648+08:002012-08-28T13:58:43.648+08:00a'kum pak yeh ,
(1) What weakness in hudood l...a'kum pak yeh ,<br /><br />(1) What weakness in hudood law?? For the case of rape there is no need for 4 witnesses and evidence gathering like DNA testing is permitted. You are just appealing to the critique by SIS on the bill. For the 3rd time , your argument holds no water as you have failed to provide the bill for comparison. You are going around in circles.<br /><br />(2) What type of apostate are we talking about?? What about a peaceful apostate?? Sahih Bukhari vol9 bk92 no424t :<br />'..A bedouin gave the Pledge of allegiance for embracing Islam to Allah's Apostle, and then he got an attack of fever in Medina and came to Allah's Apostle: and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Cancel my pledge." Allah's Apostle refused to do so. The bedouin came to him again and said, "Cancel my pledge," but he refused again, and then again, the bedouin came to him and said, "Cancel my pledge," and Allah's Apostle refused. The bedouin finally went away, and Allah's Apostle said, "Medina is like a pair of bellows (furnace), it expels its impurities while it brightens and clears its good.'..'<br /><a href="http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/092-sbt.php" rel="nofollow">peaceful apostate</a> <br />Where is the so called execution?? <br /><br />You need 4 witnesses to prove adultery per Quran24:2-5 who actually witnessed 'the rod in the hole'. Indictment is impossible unless such act was / is done in public. <br /><br />Again , your poor understanding of Islamic Jurisprudence<br /><br />Lets see if you publish this response<br /><br />part 1 of 2sam1528https://www.blogger.com/profile/01382805827344948691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-27837552949680421162012-08-28T12:49:10.281+08:002012-08-28T12:49:10.281+08:00a'kum pak yeh ,
(1) The one who appears to ha...a'kum pak yeh ,<br /><br />(1) The one who appears to have weak understanding is you not me. Has it occurred to you the translation of lahwal hadith (Quran31:6) is idle talk and the word lahwal hadith is not to be separated?? You are not even addressing my argument but harping and whining about 'mistranslation'.<br /><br />(2) Pointing out your logical fallacy is part of the debate as this is the 2nd time you are utilizing logical fallacy in your argument. Your argument is just to look for the same word whilc discarding context. Walla!! Suddenly its the same meaning. This is an argument of illogical people.<br /><br />You are now running away from the issue of you having been caught trying to equivocate. You appealed to Quran39:23 , 'ahsanal hadithi kitaban' which you claim '; 'So ahsanahal means beutiful. Hadis refers to the Book ie the Quran'. Err , the arabic for book in the verse is 'kitaban' not hadith. Furthermore 3 verses have been provided that shows 'hadith' do not mean , ha ha , book. You really screwed up here. <br /><br />If you say israk / mikraj is 'ugly message' you are insulting the Quran as the Quran narrates about israk / mikraj.<br /><br />What is it now??<br /><br />Lets see if you publish this response.sam1528https://www.blogger.com/profile/01382805827344948691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-5617558792415687682012-08-28T12:39:25.177+08:002012-08-28T12:39:25.177+08:00Pak yeh.
This ayat 31:6 refers specifically to an ...Pak yeh.<br />This ayat 31:6 refers specifically to an Nadr ibn al Harith who used to buy books containing the history of the persian king and read them to Quraysh in their nightly gathering and meetings.He used to say "This is better than what Muhammad recites to you"?<br /><br />Which kitab azhab al Nuzul you refering to and for your info there are no ayat in al Quran that forbid the written of hadith.Mat keluanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15921029091540051971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-20457817003439030682012-08-28T12:35:33.431+08:002012-08-28T12:35:33.431+08:00anon aug27 7.51 ,
There is no claiming of victory...anon aug27 7.51 ,<br /><br />There is no claiming of victory. I am pointing out the weakness of pak yeh's argument of him being a hadith rejector.<br /><br />What makes you think I did not address pak yeh's argument about '..The hadis as proof thar Rasullullah baned his own hadis which Pak Yeh submitted was not debated by you. you did gave a link..'??<br /><br />The link has been provided and the excerpt which represents my argument has been posted. What else do you want?? Have you read the reference provided?? So far no counter from either you nor pah yeh. Therefore I take it that this point been conceded by pak yeh. If you have any rebuttal , do post.<br /><br />Isnad is a chain of narration but not an explanation. The link I provided gave an explanation / rebuttal agaist pak yeh's argument.sam1528https://www.blogger.com/profile/01382805827344948691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4529824195243877014.post-29595347831573744032012-08-28T11:47:33.990+08:002012-08-28T11:47:33.990+08:00Hallo incek pakyeh??
Bawak jer hadis monyet merej...Hallo incek pakyeh??<br /><br />Bawak jer hadis monyet merejam monyet berzina habis cerita... macamana puak2 hadis hadus nak merasionalkan hadis tuh - planet of the apes... kah,kah,kah,kah...<br /><br />P/S: Pakyeh puteri tanya anda diblog sy di ruang "chatting" silalah jawab...Berhujahhttp://berhujah.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com