Tuesday, May 26, 2009

Yo Christians ! God does not come out of a vagina !

I do not mean to be rude to Christians. But desparate times needs desparate measures.Religious people need a heavy dose of the philosophy of Truth not just from their point of view but through other sources too.We cannot improve ourself without listening to our critics.Others are a mirror unto us.Religion has been called the opium of the people before and would be called the same nowadays. That is because religion cannot solve the economic problems of this world, never mind not solving the war problems that it created.The truth is religions of the world fall short of our expectations in an incredulous way.So bear with me as I take thee to reaffirm the real Truth.
You Christians say that God is "one and three".You say that Jesus and the Holy Spirit is God too besides God.This "Christian Truth" leaves a lot of questions unanswered
The following are the questions :-

1)how can Jesus be God if he is born out of the womb and vigina of his Mother???
Are you saying a mortal woman gave birth to God ,who is Jesus ,who is the Holy Spirit all at once??? And yet she is not God but a mortal woman. By Allah that is certainly mind boglingly illogical!!!Have you been conned by your priest ???

2)The bible says he was tempted by the Devil/Satan.How can God who owns all of the Kingdoms and Cosmos be tempted by Satan??? This again is mind boglingly illogical.
Is the Bible really Gods words???

I would agree to Christians using the word Allah if you can answer all the questions above. Otherwise you definitely don't deserve to use the word Allah,which means one God. Your God is Three God so it is more appropiate to call your God Trillah instead of Allah.

My appologies to all my Christian brothers and sisters. This is just an intellectual debate and a constructive criticism. We differ in our defination of God but that does not mean we cannot agree to a resolution to solve the economic and war problems in our own backyard and all over the world.

The way foward is as Allah says in the Quran 39:19 "Listen to all views.Choose the best.These are the guided,the intelligent."
Listen to all views means the views of Muslims,Hindu,Bhuddist,Christians,Jews,Communist,Socialist etc,etc. If the views are good it is Godly and Divine.

Yeah,yeah! We must have love for each other too. As the Malay proverb say "Sayang isteri tinggal2kan,Sayang anak pukul2kan"(Love your wife withdraw sometimes,Love your kid beat them sometimes) and as Pakyeh proverb goes "Sayang orang Christian,Muslim,Hindu,Bhuddist,kritik2kan"(Love the Christians,Muslims,Hindu,Bhuddist,criticise them).

Have a nice day. Peace.


Anonymous said...

Religion is based on faith. Every religion might seem illogical to the rational mind. What is important is the message that a religion tries to impart. The reason Christianity says God chose to manifest Himself through Jesus was to show His love for humanity. This is what Christianity is based on: "Love". God is willing to come to us in person and be among us, yet we ignored Him. That is a Christian belief. We don't expect Muslims to believe that, the same way we do not expect Christians to believe Islamic doctrines. God is all powerful, He can even come out of your kitchen sink if He wished to!

vicky voo said...

Dear Pak Yeh,

If you care to Google "3 in 1 Christian God", you can enjoy 60,500,000 explanations to your... ahem... vaginal question.

To help you, here's one link. . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

It's wikipedia, so it should be un-biased.

To help you further, I quote an exert:

The New Testament does not use the word "Τριάς" (Trinity) nor explicitly teach it, but provides the material upon which the doctrine of the Trinity is based.[20] It required reflection by the earliest Christians on the coming of Jesus and of what they believed to be the presence and power of God among them, which they called the Holy Spirit; and it associated the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in such passages as the Great Commission: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19) and Paul the Apostle"s blessing: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2 Corinthians 13:14), while at the same time not contradicting the Jewish Shema Yisrael: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord" (Deuteronomy 6:4).[1][21]

According to Christian tradition the Trinity was introduced by the Gospels and Jesus Christ himself;[22] using Matthew 28:19-20. "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Jesus thus mentions the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in a phrase that may suggest that there is one name that encompasses all three.

If it's over your head... never mind...

Anonymous said...

Dear Pak Yeh,

You claim that you are an intellect (snicker, snicker) and ur christian brothers and sisters are potentially conned by their priest.

But dont u think the same situation applies to u too. For example, dont u think it is a bit far fetched when Muslims claim that Muhammad received 'wahyu' while meditating in a cave. How sure r u that the 'wahyu' came from Allah. Couldnt it have come from Satan instead. What about Muhammad meditating? Correct me if i'm wrong, i dont think Muslims r thought to meditate. Isnt it a lost teaching.

First n foremost, Muslims must learn how to respect other religions and not expect everyone to bow to their whims and fancy (eg serving halal food).

Never question other peoples faith when yours has a lot of 'loopholes' that needs to be answered or attended to.

Anonymous said...

Brader, you dont get to know the whole picture of the birth of Jesus in the bible from your comment here. Maybe you should read the bible first OR are you so afraid to finally know the truth. Anyway, the quran is nothing more than a plagarised bible stories (abraham, moses etc are ALL Jews prophets) modified by muhammad to cater for his own weaknesses (have many wives etc)

Anonymous said...

Dear Christians, please study the history of Christianity especially when trinity was first introduced and which Roman emperor decreed it. Read about the council of Nicea. The teachings of Prophet Jesus didn't have a name but for sure he taught about the oneness of God. And he was sent to preach to the lost sheep of Israel esp the Pharisees.

pak yeh said...

Welcome my Brothers and Sisters of the Christian Faith.
Thank you very much for your comments.However none of you have answered my questions.
Are there any in this world that can answer my questions pertaining to the defination of God ???
Please show proof that Jesus is God. All evidence(his birth by a mortal,his death on the cross, he being tempted by Satan) are all signs and proofs that Jesus is a mortal man and not a God.
Jesus never said he was God. So why call him God???
Even if he said he was God,you should not have believed him.because the signs and proofs lead to the conclusion that he is a mortal man and a creation of God.

Answer my questions my dear.
Do not leave it unanswered.

As for a son of God. Why would God want a son ? Is he going to die??? Only mortals need sons and daughters.

Stop fooling around with the defination of God. Say He is One God, fullstop.There is no other God besides Allah.
If you say there is three God, dont say that He is One ,because that would contradict yourself.Dont be fickle minded.


pak yeh said...

Hello Vicky Voo,
All your proofs are conjectures and fiction by Jesus deciples.If one of his deciples(Judas) could betray him, why cant another deciple misinterprete him.

pak yeh said...

Vicky Voo,
Thanks for the google sites.
There are many Christians who are Unitarian(One God only).They,espacially the Unification Church are more logical in their theology.
Read my article "Bury the Cross:New Christian Theology".

Trinitarian's concept of God is totally illogical and unscientific.

akhter said...

Hi , brother do not expect any answers from these Christians,they will go on and on , Love ,and Love,and they will point out so many sites to go to and yet like you have asked them to reply to your question, non of them have, may be be we have to pose a question and then answer it for them as well.

pak yeh said...

Mr Anonymouse no.1,
Most religions are logical.Even the Hindu/Bhuddist reincarnation is logical.But your religion is illogical.How can you say that God can even come out of my kiychen sink??? Are you saying the cockroach is a God???
Why would God want to be a cockroach???
Why would God want to die on a cross ???
Why would God come out of a vagina ???
Sorry,Christian Trinitarian dont make sense, brader.

pak yeh said...

Mr Anonymouse no.2,
Stop the crap and debate.You havent answered any of my questions.
What is so difficult in believing Prophet Mohammad recieved a wahyu from Allah.Anyone can get a wahyu from Allah,only it is called ilham instead of wahyu because it wont be up to the standard of a wahyu.Muslim are taught to meditate like Prophet Mohammad did by the sufis.

About the shortcomings of Hadis Islam,I am also adressing it. Read my article "Satan,Ulama,Hadis and ISA"

pak yeh said...

Mr Anonomouse no.3,
My knowledge of the Bible and Christianity is fine.
The Quran is not plaigarised from the Bibble.The prophet Mohammad did not know how to read.All of the Quran was recieved by wahyu(the word of God).
Why are you not able to answer any of my questions???
Does that mean you cant understand your own religion???

pak yeh said...

Mr Anonymouse no.4,
Thank you very much for your advice.Christians should study Christian history too.The Spanish inquisition dipicts how cruel and misguided the Christian Preists were at that time.
A debate on Christianity and all religions will definitely lead us to a clearer picture of the Truth.

Anonymous said...

Dear Pak Yeh,

Why should Christianity be logical to you? Are you intending to convert? Many religions including Islam may sound illogical! But I will not spill it here out of respect for fellow Muslims. Christianity requires faith. If you have no faith it would sound like a fable. This is similar with Islam which is why God says in the Quran that if He willed we would believe. And why did the Caliph burn the original copy of the Quran? Is that Quran the same with the one we have today. For those of you who believe it is, fine. Therefore please also respect those who believe in the trinity. By the way at least one Muslim sect, the Alevis do not believe that the Quran we have today is pure! Yes, I do believe God can come out of a kitchen sink if He wanted to, after all He created the earth, so what is a kitchen sink!

pak yeh said...

Dear Anonymous 5,
Are you not bothered that I may be looking and debating for the Truth.If your religion is the Truth I am the first to convert.But i see no truth in the Trinity.I see Truth in the teaching of Love. So, practicing love myself,I fear Satan have mislead you by saying that Jesus is God.Satan likes to disguises as priest,Ulamas,Rabbis,and Monks as it makes his job easier to deceive mankind,by making them worship other than God.I only wish for your salvation throught our Lord Allah.Jesus is not Allah as Allah is not born out of a mortal womans vagina.
If there is any Truth in what you say,how come you cant reply any of my logical questions.Is your God illogical??? Only Satan would say religion is illogical.The Quran says we must use our intellect to understand religion.However Satan created the hadis and say that Muslims cannot use their minds to understand the Quran.
Every religion is prone to corruption by Satan.I only hope you can see this.Read history of the Spanish Inquisition.There is Muslim style Inquisition too between Syiah ans Sunni Muslims.All these are Satans work.
I hope you will take heed of satans mischiefs.God gives us brains. Please use it to understand God's religion. Dont just accept Jesus'deciples deviant form of idol/human worship.

akhter said...

See my brother ,how they will keep on repeating themselves and as always never answer your question,you know and they also that the answer is in Islam,read the story of beloved Jesus [pbuh] in the glorious Quran and the answers lies there!!!!

Anonymous said...

Dear Christian brothers and sisters, since Adam had neither mother nor father, shouldn't he be God too?

pak yeh said...

My dear Christian brothers and sisters.
You say the Holy Spirit is God. How do you know which holy spirit is God. We have many dead people's spirit who claim they are the holy spirit.THE DEAD HINDU COW TOO CAN CLAIM TO BE A HOLY SPIRIT!!!
So how can you know which one is the Holy Spirit that is God???


Hedonese said...

The Arab Christians have called their Trinitarian God "Allah" long before Islam arrived so maybe they should be the ones giving permission to you to use that term, my friend :)

In the Bible, Allah is not a far away, aloof being who only looks down at us from heaven.

Instead He rolled up his sleeves and get involved on earth. To do tat God who is all powerful chose to take on a human nature and born of a woman. There is nothing sinful coming out of a woman's vagina... all of us came from our mother's womb.

So although God is eternal and has no beginning, it is His human nature that was born and came to being 2000 years ago :)

No logical syllogism that is violated here. Ohh you also mistook the Holy Spirit for Jesus, they are not the same person in the Christian understanding of Trinity. Some folks even think Mary is the holy spirit! which just shows the need for more Msians to learn from each others' beliefs before trying to do 'constructive criticism'.

The bible says Jesus was tempted by the Devil/Satan. Now remember, Jesus is not only God, He is also fully human like you and me. We have only human nature but Jesus has both human and divine nature. Something like Wolverine - he got both human and mutant powers rite? but no contradiction mah...

Allah not only knows what is suffering like how a rich man who never felt hunger 'knows' suffering in his head. Allah knows what hunger is because He has been hungry before...

So Jesus as a human being on earth understands what temptation is like. God experiences what suffering is... because as a human He was nailed on the cross for our sake

God knows what being oppressed by hypocritical leaders who manipulate others with religion feels like. He chose to be a victim and died for us.

I got a question for my muslim friends: "If you wanna know the history of Parameswara, which historical document would be more reliable? An account written by eyewitnesses by people who live at the time of Parameswara or... an account written 600 years later, that claimed to have come down from heaven?" hehehe

Hedonese said...

Btw which scientific experiment has confirmed that Trinity is 'unscientific'? :D hahahahaha

pak yeh said...

Arab trinitarian call their God Allah??? I am not sure about that. Allah means one God.Your God is Three.You got your linguiustics and mathematics wrong.

The Holy spirit cannot be grasped by the human mind.Lets just say it is life, the force chi.Maybe we can agree here.It is a part of God but not God as a whole.

As for God appearing as a man, as Jesus or some guru or sfi sheikh. That is a conjecture.A drop of water though similar is not the Ocean.

As for the quran,it was written when the prophet mohammad is alive.Dont mistake it for the hadis which is causing the Muslims a lot of problems.
Do christians have the original gospel in hebrew the original language of Jesus.If you dont the your book is not original and probably adulterated.

Whatif said...

Dear Pak Yeh,

I have been reading your blog posts every now and then. Your political views are quite similar to mine and I also agree with your religious views on Islam, about adhering to the Quran and not so much on the hadiths which are sometimes difficult to believe and explain.

Your blog post "Satan, Ulamas, Hadis & ISA" dated 14 May is an eye opener and all Muslims should subscribe to your views which would reconcile the many discrepancies and inconsistencies in Islamic jurisprudence and practices.

However, Abdul Rahman of Malaysia Waves would label your views as anti-Hadeeth and do not represent Islam or the Quran. So, you have your own people disagreeing with you regarding your faith. The mainstream Muslims may even accuse you of deviating from true Islam and may even send you in for rehab.

In the final analysis, it is best we go for "unto you, your religion and unto me, mine. As long as the individual's religious beliefs and practices do not intrude upon and harm others, we should accept them in good faith. Agree?

That brings me to your current blog-post with the most unusual title. If I think logically like you, I would also come to the same conclusion. In fact, in my younger days, I could think of even more blasphemous situations of the virgin birth, God forbids. As I grow older, I begin to see and sense the rationality of the trinity concept.

Let me start with the Old Testament which I must admit gives me the jitters and confuses me quite a bit. Till today, I still find the Prophets of old quite alien and distant. Most of these Prophets were also the Prophets of Judaism and Islam as well. In that, the 3 religions have a common origin.

To me, the Old Testament was about a God of Vengeance. Strict rules and commandments were given to people of those times and punishment would be meted out for those who had strayed. Whole tribes had been wiped out for transgression against the ancient laws as foretold in the books. The “eye for an eye” doctrine was applied and implemented. Many people went blind then, perhaps toothless too. The emphasis then was on works, good works that was. Many people were not ‘saved’ as most had sinned.
(to be cont’d)

Whatif said...


Of course, one could atone for sins committed by sacrificing an unblemished animal to the Lord. Korban was one of the practices of Judaism to atone for sins committed and to appease God. The Jewish people have since stopped the practice except for maybe the Passover feast. Korban to Muslims is still practiced today to obtain blessings from Allah and to donate the sacrificed animal meat to the poor.

So, if we were to adhere to the teaching of the Old Testament, Christians would still be sacrificing animals for atonement of their sins. Then, enter Jesus Christ and the New Testament which preaches love and forgiveness of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. It makes some sense that instead of sacrificing animals all the time, God has sent the ultimate sacrifice in the form of Jesus. We could call him the Son of God, the Lamb of God or other such names. By His blood, believers are deemed to be forgiven and saved. Now, we are saved not so much by our works, but by the Grace of God.

That simple, people may think but not so, as we humans are prone to sin and will likely sin again and again. So, to help us maintain a sinless life, God sends us the Holy Spirit after Jesus to dwell in those who call upon Him. If you believe in Satan, the evil one, you have to believe in the Holy Spirit too. How to tell between Satan and the Holy Spirit? Quite simple really; if a man runs amok and starts killing people, we could blame this on Satan, right? If a person does good and helps people like Mother Theresa, we know that person is filled with a Holy Spirit.

The best way to judge whether a religion is good or not, is by the fruits of its adherents or followers. If a religion preaches hatred, inequality, discrimination and uses force, coercion and suppression, you will know there is something really wrong with that religion. If the followers lead a peaceful coexistence and help others selflessly, that religion has my fullest respect.

Pak, I may not have answered directly to your question about God being borne through human birth, but I hope you could at least understand the concept of the Trinity.

Admiral Tojo (a blog commenter) always mentions that Allah is closer to his jugular vein. This is as close as the Holy Spirit dwelling in us.


Don said...

USAGE OF ALLAH: lets get something clear, the court ruling to bar the use of Allah is a blessing in disguise... we should not all get riled up blindly because someone said we could not do or use something, in all things we have to use Scripture as our guide, and God's Word reveals His character as Perfect and Holy, and we must always seek to glorify His Name, and not mock Him by calling Him something He is not, which is Allah... to make it simple, Allah is one of the many deities that Muhammad had at his disposal, 360 idols plus he had with him, but he chose the idol of his dad ie Allah to become the predominant one and got rid of the rest to unite the ppl... Allah, is essentially a moon deity, hence the relationship with the moon etc...and when Muhd received his 'revelation' from Allah, he himself did not know if it was from God or Satan, he had to ask his wife Khadijah(a former Catholic) to help him clarify... in all likelihood he received the revelation from Satan who himself can appear as an angel of light...when one examines the character of Allah, one will be appalled that Christians would want to use it!!
anyway, back to my point, a simple question can help solve this Allah issue among Christians, would we call our God by the name of Baal?, Imhotep?, Krishna?, Joseph Smith?, Dagon? Kali? Confucius?... assuredly not rite, so why do we want to fight for the usage of Allah?.... let the muslims keep it... IT is a pagan deity and a deception of Satan...many ppl also ponder at the many so called religions of the world, actually there's only two, TRUTH and falsehood... Christianity being the Truth and the rest falsehoods....all the rest try to do good basically and earn our way back to their ideas of God, but Christianity is the only one that says we cant and that we are morally and spiritually bankrupt, but God loves us and has died and rose again that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have eternal life...

don said...

Question1 :How can Jesus be God if he is born out of d womb?
"i cant understand it, hence it must be wrong"..??.... this is a false assumption, God is OMNIPOTENT...Jer 32:27 "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?"...Gen 18:14 "Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son." our Lord Jesus was fully God and fully man (Phil 2:5-8)...He was not born of normal union between male and female but was born by the power of the Holy Spirit and was called that holy thing (Luke 1:34-35)... He who created life can most definitely control it.... and if we look back to creation, He breathed life into us, and then we became alive...

Question 2: How can Jesus be tempted by Satan?
This questions goes into a few areas, so please do bear with me for its length. We know that God is Holy, and scripture shows us that His Person is absolute sinless. The people closest with Him bore witness to His character. As it is with us today, those closest to us know us for who we really are.
Hear what Peter said concerning himself: "Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord. BUT of Christ he said, He "did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:......Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust" (1Pet 2:22, 3:18).
John too: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."(1Jn 1:8)... but with regards to Christ "he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin" (1Jn 3:5)
2 Cor 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

The ministry of our Lord was marked by magnificent claims. No mere man would attribute these claims to themselves. He asserted His Deity and equality with the Father which the Jews themselves recognised... Jn 5:18 "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." Jn 8:58-59 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself , and went out of the temple going through the midst of them, and so passed by." He did not merely claim to be good, He claimed to be God!!...and He is!!..:)

His statements were either true or utter nonsense, aint no middle ground. One flaw would hv been sufficient to disprove Him, yet He openly challenged His enemies: "Which of you convicteth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?" (Jn 8:46)
The Chief priests themselves found it to be extremely difficult to conjure up false witnesses who would all agree together(see Mt 26:59-60)
Pilate washed his hands and said he was innocent of blood of a just man (Mt 27:24)... at His trial no voice was raised on His behalf, but in His death God gave Him two witnesses to attest to His perfect character-- a dying thief and a Roman centurion (Lk 23:41,47)

Holiness is far more than the absence of sin, for God was holy before there was ever a sin in the universe. It is completeness of character where every faculty is in perfect expression and in perfect accord; it is an infinite and glowing purity which has neither room for sin nor interest in it. Our Lord is perfect in holiness in every facet of His being.

Again it needs to be stressed that our Lord Jesus could not sin. When He became incarnate, He was still the Word, and unchanged as to His personality. The taking on of humanity into union with Deity involved no subtraction from the fullness of His Person.

don said...

Now we come to the question, how could he be tempted if he could not sin?... the word 'tempt in scripture does not involve primarily any solicitation to sin, but refers to trying, testing or proving:
Jn 6:6 " And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do." Christ's question here to Philip tested him but could not have any evil intent
Heb 11:17 "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac." Abraham was tested by God, in view of the glorious sequence to his faith. God tests for man's good, desiring only his blessing.

An additional element attaching to the word 'tempt' may be ascribed to two factors. On the one hand, the devil tests also, but with evil motive, desiring only man's hurt. On the other hand, "God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."
you see, Jesus was tempted by Satan directly, because He had no sin in Himself, Christ had no sinful lust within Himself to entice Him, where as we sinful creatures do... think back to Eden... God put the tree there to test our first parents... Satan tempted them to do evil and rebel, and they folded under his temptation and bought the lie and fell...

You see, here, then, is the secret of our own tragedy - - the presence in us of sinful tendencies, the desires of a fallen nature. In the Holy One of God there were never such tendencies, only the intensity of infinite purity. In us there's always that inward struggle against the entreaties of evil. We know the latter is wrong, but find in ourselves a deep revolted nature and a deep-rooted sympathy towards those wrong desires (for a wonderful passage on this, read Romans 7). In the Lord Jesus there was neither this sympathy nor this struggle.

It has been objected that because in our Lord's temptation the issue was not in doubt, the temptation was therefore and unreal one. This objection is merely superficial. The temptation was a proving of His character. That it proved to be altogether holy did not indicate that there was any unreality in the malicious attack of the enemy. The temptation was most real, and its resultant suffering, with which we'll deal later, showed the intensity of the assault made on Him.
Again, it is objected that true manhood involves freedom of moral choice. This is true, but it does not imply any necessity for exercising that choice in a wrong way.

God Himself is a God of eternal liberty; He chooses what He pleases; nevertheless what He chooses is always right. Adam, given the power of choice as shown earlier, chose that which was contrary to everything he knew of the God who had shown him only goodness. Though at the time he was unfallen he was without the experience of sin, yet he was not that holy thing. Adam prior to the fall was sinless, but Christ was unchangeably Holy. Christ's true manhood did indeed involve freedom of choice, but it was the unfettered choice of perfect holiness. Holiness chooses that which is holy; it is never untrue to itself. It cannot choose sin. That's why scripture tell us to be holy because He is holy. The indwelling Holy Spirit is our guide, and this itself is another topic in itself.

The temptation of Christ in the wilderness had two sides. Not only was there Satanic attact, but the Spirit of God led Him to the scene (Mt4:1). The purpose was the our Lord should be proved. Not that there was any posibility of doubt as to the outcome, but that the perfection of His holiness should be displayed.

don said...

In the Gospel of Luke which brings forth the theme of the humanity of Christ, the order of the three temptations was that of body, soul and spirit, the three spheres of manhood. In each case, the tempter's suggestion was that Christ should basically act independently of God.

In the first case, holiness refused the challenge to provide bread for bodily needs by the exercise of His power when there was no word from God to do so. In the second, holiness refused to give to a creature honour due only to God, and to receive kingship from other than the God who had promised it to Him already. In the third, holiness refused to make a trial of God's faithfulness for which there was no reason in the path of God's will.

He was perfect, the spotless Lamb of God. On Him was focused the glaring light of relentless opposition and bitter hatred, but no fault was ever discernible in Him. On the Cross, the cruelty of man brought only the "Father, forgive them" from His lips.

Whatever the trials, however sustained their duration, and however acute the suffering which they brought Him, they could only add their witness to the perfect purity of His heart, and to the beauty of His ways.

"He himself hath suffered being tempted.." (Heb 2:18). He did suffer, not only in such circumstances as hunger and grief, but even when the enemy placed before Him those base suggestions to which there could be no possibility of His yielding. They caused Him deep pain, and that because of His very holiness.

Just say there's this old lady taken from the calm atmosphere of a pure and sweet home, and made to reside among the horrid degradations of some horrid neighbourhood, would she not suffer acutely from the sounds and sights repellent to her?... if these things are true of us in all our frailty and failure, in all our slowness to understand the glory of God, and the exceeding sinfulness of sin - - just imagine how much the Lord suffered... and that on our behalf.... and who are we?... wretched, blind, without strength, ungodly, enemies of God, sinners!!...

don said...

1 Jn 1:10,19 "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. We love him, because he first loved us."

Rom 5:6-11 "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement."

1 Pet 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

hope this was helpful and able to at the least clear up some mis-conceptions... if i came across as antagonizing, i assure you that was not my intention, and i do apologize...i do pray too that you may seek forgiveness in the Lord Jesus Christ, and realize that on our own, we can never meet the righteous claims of God, but thanks be to God, that He Himself has provided the way in which we may be reconciled with God... The Lord Jesus died, and yea not only died but rose again victorious over death and the grave... i do hope that you do not confound the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus...

now, may i perhaps ask some questions:

1. in Islam, why do we humans die, i mean what is the cause of death?

2. How much of good work is needed to be done to enter heaven?... and the need to do good work implies that there is something inherently wrong with us humans, that we have to regain something that was lost... but correct me if I'm wrong in that Islam considers prophets sinless, and Adam was a prophet, and he was thrown out of heaven for having a lapse in judgement.... but isn't a lapse in judgement=sin, assuming God is perfect...

3. Is worshipping idols condoned in Islam? Is the god of Islam not omnipresent? Why the need to pray towards a particular direction and in the direction of the black stone?

pak yeh said...

To Watif and don and debater of Truth,
There is a lot of information and I need to digest them first befor I comment either here or on a new posting.
Thank you for a good debate.

For your info Christianity has many concepts or dogmas and I have debated on 2 of them...1) the concept of sin 2) the concept of the Messiah.
Please read and comment on them

don said...

Thanks for the reply...
yes, there are many truths to be examined... its good that you seek to examine them, but we have to be sincere and honest with our motive and method of examination...
what i mean is, if we come clearly just to prove something is wrong, we'll keep doing so no matter what is put forward... the same method that's used to defend has to be used in critiquing, i mean the thought process of discerning right from wrong....

and another thing, the final analysis has to be based on each other's claims... not the person we're talking with, but with their books, in this case the Bible and the Quran... there may be false interpretations by people on both sides, but we have to go back to the book and examine its claims for themselves...

i'll give you an example: some christians think that the Bible supports evolution, but nowhere in the Bible does it say so, on the contrary it put forwards creation clearly....

we have to check the claims whether it agrees throughout internally as well as externally....

i'm sure you have many questions, you can e-mail me at willtrytoreplyasap@gmail.com and God-willing will endeavour to answer the queries...

pak yeh said...

Thanks Brader don,
If you say God can come out of the vagina as Jesus,then it also means that God can be the Hindu God that has an elephants head an many hands.How then??? Are the Hindus talking the Truth??? Or is it all fairy tales???
The rational of God coming as a human(Jesus) and dieing on the cross for our sins is one of weakness and nonsense.Nonsense because our sin should be carried by us,not somebody else like Jesus.This is applicable to original sin.Adam and Eve should bear their own original sins.
Modern Christians(Unification Church) have buried the cross because of the peception of weakness of God being crucified. Read my article and youtube link titled "Bury the cross:New Christian Theolaogy"

Lets debate on this weak "God defination" before we proceed on to other concepts or dogmas.
Thanks for your respond.

Love and peace.

don said...

"Thanks Brader don,
If you say God can come out of the vagina as Jesus,then it also means that God can be the Hindu God that has an elephants head an many hands.How then??? Are the Hindus talking the Truth??? Or is it all fairy tales???"

Dear Pak Yeh, did you read in entirety what was written, the other things are aberrations and falsehoods, Hinduism and what not, including Islam...

"The rational of God coming as a human(Jesus) and dieing on the cross for our sins is one of weakness and nonsense."
Firstly, its not rational, its fact, secondly He voluntarily came to die for us and confined Himself to human body, but He was fully God and fully man, the Bible shows Him as fully exhibiting the characteristics of God as well as man... no man taketh His life, He laid it down willingly for us, yes for you too, Pak Yeh, and by and by if you refuse Him now, in the end you will realize your mistake and spend eternity in woe..

"Nonsense because our sin should be carried by us,not somebody else like Jesus.This is applicable to original sin.Adam and Eve should bear their own original sins."

My friend, it is exactly because we cannot atone for our own sins that Christ came to redeem us in the likeness of our flesh. The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sin, but the sacrifice of the perfect Christ clears the sinner who believes in Him and has peace with God in virtue of Christ's sacrifice...

"Modern Christians(Unification Church) have buried the cross because of the peception of weakness of God being crucified. Read my article and youtube link titled "Bury the cross:New Christian Theolaogy""

perhaps you didnt read my previous post, ppl can choose what they want to believe, but its what's that said in the Bible that matters, not people false ideas ie. unification church, mormons, catholicism, charismatic,jehovah's witnesses...etc..
this will be my last post, since you seem not interested to talk/debate though you say you are, rather you seem vehemently opposed and in actuality merely seeking to ridicule Christianity rather than win people over for your alleged god... which is sad...

nevertheless, my offer still stands, do email me if you wish to really seek the Truth...

pak yeh said...

Don said : the other things are aberations,falshood,..hinduism and whatnot including Islam.

1)Pak Yeh :You accuse as falsehood others without any rvidence,debates and proofs.It shows your ignorance and proper conduct to understand Truth.

2)You agree that it is not rational for God to suffer for our sins on the cross. Checkmate! This is proof that Christian concept of sin is irrational/nonsense.

3)You say humans cannot atone for their sins and only Jesus can. Thats a lie.God says every person shall bear punishment/atonement for their his own sins.

4)You say that all others are false except your book/gospel. Please show evidence and benchmarking to proof you are the best of all religions.
I think Christians don't even have the original Bibble in Aramic,the language of Jesus.
Without the original Gospel in Aramic, it can be infered that the Gospel have been tampered with cannot be accepted as evidence of truth.

Your version of Truth cannot be verified with convincing evidence and debate technics.As such tey are assumptions and conjecture only. Without evidence and proper debating technics you appear to be ignorant of debating principles.

don said...

i apologize for going against my word in saying that was my last post...

but you misunderstood what i said about rational, or perhaps i misunderstood ur usage of it... you said "the rational of God coming as a human(Jesus)"... i was commenting on your insinuation that it was fake, when ppl word their sentences as such, they indicate that they dont believe the subsequent matter, hence i was merely stating that it was not a rationale, it was fact...so i dont see any check mate, like you said, i've not even gone into greater detail, i was just responding to your article, and asked you some questions which you have neglected to answer... bro, i haven't even moved any pieces on the board :), and moreover its not a battle between me and you to diminish the other party....

bro, may the Lord judge between us... if ever you desire a real discussion, then do email me...

do pray that you may not die in your sins, and that you may seek forgiveness in the Lord Jesus...
tc bro..

drreza said...

salam sejahtera

this is what always happens when religion is discussed. people are different. let everyone believe what they want.

no matter how subtle or non offensive it is writted, it is bound to get someone unhappy.

religion is the way, but not how we've come to appreciate it because of all the corruption already instilled for thousands of years.

we all pray to the same god, no matter how you think god looks like or whatever His/Her name is.

be good to other people. that was the most important message in ALL religions.

Anonymous said...

Seek for the truth in your own religion. If you think there is no truth in your religion, then only seek the truth in other religions.

pak yeh said...

Salam drreza,
I belief there is no harm done here.We are using the method of Socrates,Plato and aristotle to undestand a religion.This same method is being used to understand my religion Islam.The great Sufi Ibn Arabi used it,Many say he is wrong but I can agree with him perfectly.Wahdatul wujud is in the Quran. It justifies all religion,however we must uncover the veil that covers our eyes before we can be ihsan and see God.Christianity has undergone reform.I could see some Christian groups becoming Unitarian. If one God is worshiped then we can unite under Islam.
Note:Al Religions are Islam by because all prophets are prophets of Islam.It is Satans role to make all religions unIslamic.Even within Muslim Islam thre is an effort to unIslam the religion using the Hadis.
We debate for the Truth for Allah not for people.Most people (majority) as the Quran say are mislead by lahwal(vain) hadis.
The refusal of Hadis Ulamas to debate their own religion is because of ignorance.
They do not follow AlQuran 39:18 "Listen to all views.Choose the best.These are the guided,the intelligent."

pak yeh said...

Anonymous n0.7 said : Seek truth in your own religion.If you think there is no truth is your religion then only seek the truth in another religion.

This is the process of seeking truth in every religion.Truth is beyond religion.You cannot be a judge of truth unless you have searched all religion.Otherwise you would be biased,and being biased is judgment denied.
Lets say I am the messenger of Truth anointed by God.Would a messenger of Truth concentrate on one religins truth only??? Surely he would peach the truth in every religion and refute Satans misguiding teachings. Satan's role is to misguide all of mankind no matter what religion,political or economic affiliations.The messenger of Truths duty is to reguid every religio to its original Islamic teachings.
Why dont we all seek truth in every religion.That is what is needed to understand each others religion better.It is our responsibility to right the wrong in every religion.
All religion is Islam,because all prophets preach Islam. However satan changed the message. What I am doing doing is telling the truth about all kinds of Islam(Christian,Hindu,Bhuddist etc)They were preached by Islamic prophets.Allah said He has sent Prophets to every race to preach Islam. So we should uncover the truth of all their originally Islamic religions if we are really seeking the "total truth"

Truth is a word.Words have no meaning except wahat the Christians,hindus Muslims etc define as Truth.Therfor the big picture of Truth is the sum total of all the Truth as defined by every religion.
This is the defination of Truth fron a linguistic point of view.Its an unbiased defination of truth.

akupun said...

nice pakyeh, finally u've learned something from astora!!!
the controversial stuff!
go on...

hi vicky...u look sexy...im intrested to talk more about the'vaginal' stuff with u...u free?
wh heh heh he....

Anonymous said...

I would agree to Christians using the word Allah if you can answer all the questions above

===Pakyeh, I will answer this first as I am busy.

Please read and realise that the word Allah was already in use before Islam was founded.

"Furthermore, the Arabic translation of the Jewish Bible uses the name "Allah" to refer to God in Genesis 1:1

" Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . ."

Genesis 1:1 - in Arabic

Read more at:


Also read:

"The word "Allah" as the name of GOD in the Book of Ezra in the Aramaic Bible:

The following was sent to me by brother Tera Tak Adamar; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

Christians themselves not aware that 'Allah' is actually the God of every prophet, the proof is Old Testament itself. In Aramaic God is 'Elah', in Hebrew is 'Eloah' whereas in Arabic is 'Allah', these 3 are actually related to each other. The different in pronounciation is only on slang.

I have found the interesting proof from Christian's source to prove

Please read more at:http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah3.htm


Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh,

Read the testimony of this man:
"As Sheik Mohammed lay dying of AIDS in the hospital, his family began preparing for his funeral. As far as they and the doctors were concerned, he had only a little time to live. But it was at that point that something miraculous happened.

"Late one night I received a vision," Amin says. "In my vision, the hospital room glowed with a bright light. Jesus, dressed as a doctor, came into the room and stood by my bed. He looked at me with love and affection and said, 'Mohammed rise up.'

"Being a Moslem, I was confused. I began to say to myself, 'How can I get up when there is no strength in me?' But Jesus seemed to know what I was thinking. He came closer and began to touch my sick body. He took my hand and sat on my bed. I cannot fully explain the feelings. It was so special. Suddenly, I was filled with joy, peace and happiness."

Read the rest at :



pak yeh said...

Thankyou Anonymous/jc for responding.
I agree tahat the Old Testament Christians or Unitarians can use the word Allah. But New Testament/Gospel do not deserve to use the word Allah because they have blasphemed Allah(one God) by associating Jesus and the Holy Spirit as equals to Allah.
Jesus and the holy Spirit is a creation of Allah. HOW CAN THE CREATOR(Allah) be equal to his CREATION(Jesus and the Holy Spirit)??????

If you can tell lies about Allah, you definately dont deserve to call your God Allah !!!

Well if you can tell lies about Allah, your story about Sheikh Mohammad is also a lie.

Telling lies is the work of the devil/Satan. Are you a devil in disguise ???Please do not be decieved by Satan disguised as priests. Satans strategy... "Decieve the priests and all who follow them goes to hellfire."

Believe in 1 God(Allah or believe in 3 Gods(Trinity)!!!
Make up yor mind!!! Do not contradict yourself by putting the two together.!!!

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh, I suppose you will also say this is another lie !

(MIAMI, FL)—The audience of 120 doctors from 50 countries sat in stunned silence as a renowned heart doctor produced evidence of how, after he had prayed for a patient who had died and was being prepared for the morgue, was brought back to life after prayer.

Read more at http://prorege-forum.com/forum_entry.php?id=4088


Anonymous said...

Believe in 1 God(Allah or believe in 3 Gods(Trinity)!!!
Make up yor mind!!! Do not contradict yourself by putting the two together.!!!


Pak Yeh,

Please don't twist words, Christians believe in one God . One try to limit God . You see and reason about God with a human mind.

There is only one Sun and from it we get the light and feel the heat. We do not say there are three Suns.

You are not qualified to talk about Christianity.

If you think your relgion will get you to heaven fine. That's your pregogative. I choose otherwise.

Have a nice day.


Anonymous said...

Ai yo yo, Christians are very stupid lah ! How can God come out of a vagina ?
Aiyo Christians. Someone who come out of a vagina in human lah !
Dont put you brain in your backside lah !

Hindu Guy.

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh,
are u an agnostic or what?

pak yeh said...

Dear Anonymous (jc),
Thanks for the comments.

1)We get so many Doctos who misdiagnose.The doctor must have bought his certificate.

2)Aiiyaa! So dont be confused lah.
The sun is not God laa.You cannot compare God to the sun.The sun is gods creation.So now you are comparing God to Gods creation, (the sun).Jesus and the holy spirit are Gods creation.
How can you compare the creation(Jesus and the holy spirit) to the Creator (God)? There is only one Creator(God).Where got same you compare the Creator to the creation.
If God is the 1st the He is the Creator Anything that comes afterwards is His creatio.
Besides God is not so weak as to be killed by the Romans.You make the Romans so powerful that they can kill Jesus your God ?
If that is the case ,might as well worship the Romans who torchoured and killed your God.
What a weakling you make God God to be. Humans can kill God ???
This is realy making a nonsense and a laughing stock out of God.

Dont contradict yourself.If you say there is one God
Go look up the dictionary for the meaning of creator and creation.

pak yeh said...

Dear Anonymous/Hindu Guy,
Thank you for your support.
God dont have to come as a human/Jesus to do His work. He could make use of every of His creations to do His work.

Oh Christians !!!
God getting killed on the cross???Such a weak God !!!
You should be worshiping the Romans instead for being so strong as to kill God.
What bungkum bullshit! Oh Trinitarian Christians!
You blaspheme God when you say God can die.You blaspheme God when you say he was killed on the cross.
Dont make illogical stories about God.You will definitely end up in hell.

Anonymous said...

f God is the 1st the He is the Creator Anything that comes afterwards is His creatio.
Besides God is not so weak as to be killed by the Romans.You make the Romans so powerful that they can kill Jesus your God ?


Pak Yeh,

I see that you can never understand. You see things from man's worldly views.

Even if I try to explain you will not believe.

The birth of Jesus was long prophesied in the Old Testament books and as the Jew make a Korban during the Passover (whichy of course you will not understand, ),they needed an unblemished sheep .

Jesus is the final Korban, to God (but as is the fact you will never understand).

I think it is pointless talking about all these to you as you will only try to "under" the Bible form the view of the Koran.

I think we best let it be.


Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ai yo yo, Christians are very stupid lah ! How can God come out of a vagina ?
Aiyo Christians. Someone who come out of a vagina in human lah !
Dont put you brain in your backside lah !

Hindu Guy.


Ha, ha, ha, ayoo yoo, not so fast lah Hindu guy, Why don't you ask Pak Yeh, what he thinks of your gods.

He, he, he, I think you will stop laughling lah !

pak yeh said...

Anonymous said : Pak Yeh. Are you an agnostic or what?

I am a Christian Unitarian,a Hindu Yogi who prays to one God, a Buddhist that does not pray to Buddha but to one God, and a Muslim that does not belief in lahwal(vain) hadis.My religion is Islam the religion of all prophets. Allah says He has sent prophets to every race. But Satan mislead all the followers of every religion. So we have to rediscover all the religions.

Those that say there is more than one God have been decieved by Satan and will end up in hell.

It follows that I am defending my own religion Islam, whether I talk about Christian,Hindu,Buddhist or etc,etc.

pak yeh said...

Dear Anonymous jc,
Why do you belief in all this silly stories that make God look like a sacrificial lamb.
Even the Hercules makes more sense than your weak God story.At least both Hercules Father and Mother are Gods.You are making a laughing stock of the Christian God by saying He came out of a mortal womans vagina.
Your story makes God a mortal. Therefore your God is a mortal and is weaker that the Romans.

Stop blaspheming God,you Trinitarian Christians!!!

Anonymous said...

Stop blaspheming God,you Trinitarian Christians!!!


Pak Yeh,

Sorry to hear of your ignorence.

In the Bible Jesus had said," .. no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

So, Pak Yeh, I am not surprise you will vehemently defend your stand.

Anyway , like I have said, its your take not mine.



Anonymous said...

You are making a laughing stock of the Christian God by saying He came out of a mortal womans vagina.


Pak Yeh, how did you know Jesus came to this world through the vagina ?. Why you are blaspheming Allah !.

The Bible tells us that the Angel Gabrial appeared to Mary and tell her that she would be with child.

The Angel Gabriel aslo told Mary that "For nothing will be impossible with Allah"

You are limiting God with your human mind. Jesus could come out of Mary's womb without going through the virgina as how he was conceived.

Why should I believe your nonsense ?. I believe what the Bible tells me.

Thank you for trying but no thanks.


pak yeh said...

Dear Anonymous jc,
Dont assume that your gospel is Gods word. It does not sound like God speaking.It sounds like jesus' deciples speaking.Not all deciples cannot be trusted.Even if the deciples can be trusted the Vatican probably burned their books.thats why you do not have the gospel in Aramic.Without understanding the gospel in Aramic, God or lord can be translated to be Father.So when Jesus said God or lord in Aramic it is changed to Father.
All this happened during the Roman Emperor and the Nicea Creed who fabricated the Trinity.

Read what Allah says about Christians in the Quran.It is original in Arabic not latin like the bibble/Gospel. Your original Bibble/Gospel is gone. So your original Christian religion is also gone.

Anonymous said...

Read what Allah says about Christians in the Quran.It is original in Arabic not latin like the bibble/Gospel. Your original Bibble/Gospel is gone. So your original Christian religion is also gone.


Sorry lah, Pak Yeh, Your "truth" is not mine, why should I belive about the Gospel through your Koran ?.

By the way one man's meat is another man's poison.

So you stick to your faith and I will stick to mine.

No offence,



pak yeh said...

Dear Anonymouse jc,
I am not asking you to belief in the Quran. I am only asking you to use your common sense and logic.
Without using your mind you would be de-educated/brainwashed and fooled by the priest who themselves were fooled by those before them.Trinity and Godhood in man(Jesus) is an import from Greek and Roman Gods. That is why there is no more Aramic Gospel.all you have is a translated Latin Gospel full of mistranslation and politics of the Roman Emperor Constantine and the Nicea Creed.

pak yeh said...

Dear christians,
Please read the comments by Vicky Voo.
It is a historical explaination of how trinity came about and how it contradicts the Old testament.

Thanks very much, Vicky.
Love and peace.

Tamerlane said...

My thoughts and responses to the comments here.

1-The New testament was written in the thrid party,not as a first person like the quran. jesus himself never wrote anything.

2- Jesus, though having many miracles was not given the resources like Muhammad to be able to prevent the Quranic revealtion form future corruptions.

3-Muhammads revealations in the cave couldnt have come from satan. Why would the Quran speak against satan and evil, if it came from satan himself.The revelations came over 20 years based on the need and the events occuring and not in one leatherbound book. You see some verses are repeated one or twice or more to reinforce the message much like when you tell someone something. It is not a script of a movie where someone sits down and carefully put the point together including or omitting lies. OT speaks of revealations in the manner Muhammad received.

Isaiah 28:10
For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there.'"

4- Why would God speak to himself while beig crucified on a cross? How can a God die?

5- The Quranic narration that Allah saved Jesus from the cross isnt without precedent. If he can save Ishmael by sending a lamb, why cant he do the same for his prophet?

6- There is no evidence of the resurrection of Christ, except claims by early christians.

7- The Divine authorship of the Quran is proven by the many scientific miracles revealed within the verses. Also by the 19 primer discovered within its text.

The truth is obvious and those who cannot see it chooses to ignore it and be blinded. As the Quran said God has sealed their hearts.

Those who dont see the truth cannot claim to enter paradise or the kigdom of God. In the words of the book of matthew:

"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."

pak yeh said...

Thank you very much Tamerlane for a very detailed and rational approach to this debate.I appreciate pt very much.

I do hope there are Christians who can refute your statements.
Mr don, jc, any comments???

This is a debate for the truth, nothing more, nothing less.

Anonymous said...

woi pakyeh,

u know how to comment about christianity. do u ever asked how true is the teachings of nabi muhammad?

ok, when muhammad was in the cave, he had a dream and he proclaimed that angel gabriel appeared to him.

an after a few days out of the cave, what happened to him? have u ever asked this? have u ever looked into the hadiths?

according to the hadiths, he got crazy for a few days after coming out of the cave.

god will never confuse nor make his believers crazy. if you look into the old testament of the bible, none, not one! of the prophets ever got crazy after having a dream that came from god!

your mohammad must be possessed by evil.

and the story continues... b4 he went to mecca, he went to the jews claiming that he's a god sent prophet. but kesian, he was rejected.

and therefore, he went to mecca and try to influence the ppl thr. at that time, the ppl were worshipping like 360 gods. in order for him to be accepted, he had to compromise his mission. and that's why, they all came up with the quote, allah is the GREATEST. does this mean anything to you?

bcuz there are so many gods, muhammad didn't want to say that there was only one god, otherwise he would be rejected again. but he said, al-elah, the MOON GOD, is the greatest.

and thats why, u all have the MOON on the mosques and also moon on the flags of all muslim countries.

moon seems to be a very significant figure in islam.

my fren, you're worhipping a MOON GOD. it's false! it's pagan!

akhter said...

We *mortals* are uncomfortable with anything purely divine, that is why we are mortals.

Gabriel, was a angel - divine being.
Muhammad, pbuh - was a mortal.

The similar example can be seen in the case of Moses and the burning bush.

[Read Exodus 3:5-6]

"Moses was *afraid* because he realized it was God speaking to him".
"When Moses heard the voice, he was *terrified* fell to his knees. He was afraid to look at the bush, which he knew was God. "
"With that, the Divine told Moses to throw his shepherd's staff to the ground, which he did, and it turned the staff into a *snake* (why not a dove or sparrow ?, isn't snake, the Satan of Eden ). That *scared* Moses, so he *ran away* from it at first, but when he picked up the snake again, it turned back into his shepherd's staff. "

Well, most prophets/messengers of God were initially *terrified*, or *scared* of the divine presence.


pak yeh said...

Anonymouse Said{
my fren, you're worhipping a MOON GOD. it's false! it's pagan.

Pak Yeh says:
Only a lunatic would belieh that. Idont belif in the Hadith because it contradicts the Quran.You should not belief in the Gospels too, because it contradicts the Old Testament.
Refer Isaiah 43 verse 10,".....before Me there is no God"
Isaiah 43 verse 11 "I only I am God and besides me there is no Savior".
I will accept your facts if it comes from the Quran.Nobody have found any contradictions in the Quran, unlike the many contradictions in the Bible

Anonymous said...

W.C. Somerville Ph.D. dari Gereja Scottish cukup berani mengakuinya:

“Injil ini ditulis sekitar tahun 80 Masehi oleh seorang penyusun yang tidak dikenal. Injil tersebut nampaknya dihasilkan oleh seorang yang sangat tertarik kepada agama Yahudi dan tertarik kepada Perjanjian Lama, dan kemungkinan dipersiapkan untuk dipergunakan pada suatu pusat dimana majoriti orang Kristian sebelumnya adalah orang-orang beragama Yahudi. (Somerville, A First Introduction to the New Testament, hal.620)

Anonymous said...

Dear Pak Yeh,
Well, other than your insulting way to express your thought (I am not sure if Socrates was rude man himself), your analysis about Christianity or Judaism religion(s) should also take into account the history of the human race. Real history not the err.. 'religious hearsay, bedtime stories and such'(am sure u know what I meant). From reading your blog, I conclude you trust The Holy Quran and nothing else. Jesus indeed come from Mary's womb, through her vagina of course (I seriously cudn't think of any other posibble channel) as stated in Surah Maryam Q19:16 onwards. Your question is whether He is God or not. Here we have to consider the history of Jesus time, where emperors/king were considered as God themselves or Son of God even. If you read the Gospels Jesus himself never proclaim himself as God. Christians concept of trinity is that they believe Jesus is the long promise Messiah (al-masihi as in the Quran), become human born of the virgin Mary, but God-ly as it was what Godwill was. I think somewhere along the way, through politics of men, as Christianity grew strong on its own this 'conceptual foundation' along with ritual( u know, cross symbol, holy water, circumsization of penis, head gear, fasting) established into the 'religion'. What sadden me is that peoples focus more on the ritual (religion indentity) rather than the teaching itself. It was like we focus much on make up of the bride than the important of marriage itself. ;)

pak yeh said...

Dear Lara,
Lara said:
Anonymous said...
Dear Pak Yeh,
Well, other than your insulting way to express your thought (I am not sure if Socrates was rude man himself), your analysis about Christianity or Judaism religion(s) should also take into account the history of the human race. Real history not the err.. 'religious hearsay, bedtime stories and such'(am sure u know what I meant).

Pak Yeh's reply:
When I say the truth, you say I am rude.Why is that.? You dont like the truth.???
My analysis in firstly from God's words in the Old Tesatament Bible Isaih 45:10,12,12"I am the only god.There is no god befor me and no god after me.And there is no Savior except me".
What does the verse mean.??? That Jesus and the Holy Ghost is not a god.!!! Agree.???
You cannot use the Gospel to contradict this verse. The Gospel is not god's words but the word man,ie the autobiographers of Jesus.

Lara said:
From reading your blog, I conclude you trust The Holy Quran and nothing else.

Pak Yehs reply:
I read everything with a non biasedmind. It is my brains that tell me what is right and what is wrong, but offcourese with references to all the books of god and non god. The Quran is more consistent in truth thatn any orher book so far, unless I can find something wrong with it.

Lara said:
Jesus indeed come from Mary's womb, through her vagina of course (I seriously cudn't think of any other posibble channel) as stated in Surah Maryam Q19:16 onwards. Your question is whether He is God or not. Here we have to consider the history of Jesus time, where emperors/king were considered as God themselves or Son of God even. If you read the Gospels Jesus himself never proclaim himself as God. Christians concept of trinity is that they believe Jesus is the long promise Messiah (al-masihi as in the Quran), become human born of the virgin Mary, but God-ly as it was what Godwill was. I think somewhere along the way, through politics of men, as Christianity grew strong on its own this 'conceptual foundation' along with ritual( u know, cross symbol, holy water, circumsization of penis, head gear, fasting) established into the 'religion'. What sadden me is that peoples focus more on the ritual (religion indentity) rather than the teaching itself. It was like we focus much on make up of the bride than the important of marriage itself. ;)

Pak Yeh's reply;
Where in the Gospel did Jesus say he is godly.??? He sai to them,"Do not say I am good, for God is the only good".There is none in the Gospel to show that Jesus claimed to be a god. The holy Spirit did not claim himself to be god too.
So who did.??? Its your Priest that misinterpret the Bible to corrupt and contradict the message of god, especially of Bible,Isaiah 45:10,11,12."I am the only God.There is no god before me and no god after me. And there is no Savior except me."
So conclusion: Dont trust priests.!!! They can be the devil in disguise.Listen to Elvis' song "The Devil in disguise...