I dont know why Ulamas cannot debate with Christians.???
I suspect they are afraid of loosing in a debate. Pehaps the Universities, they attend never taught the use of their mind. Perhaps they are taught to follow blindly what their teachers say.. Perhaps, this hadis made them stupid... Reported by Jundub "The prophet Mohamad said that whoever use their mind to interpret the Quran should be prepared to go to hell fire".
This is one reason why Arab Muslim and non Arab Ulamas never want to debate because debating is the use of the mind.
This debate is based on the Christian point of view on why they mistranslated "god", a noun to "Allah", a proper noun/name, explained by Dr D Soesilo.
Please refer to the full article @...
1) The Christian said:
I would have thought that any Malay would know that the meaning of the
words Allah (God) and Tuhan (Lord, Rabb) are not the same.
1) Pak Yeh's refutation:
You will be suprised that the Malays, know more of the Arab language than the Arab. Ha,ha,
Allah actually means "Al" + "illah" .
"Al" means "the" and "illah" means "god". When joined together Allah is a name of the Muslim god as proven by the Quran.
Proof of this is in the sentence "La illa ha illallah" in the Quran and much recited by all Muslims, which means "No god(illah) but Allah".
So your statement that Allah is god is wrong.!!! Allah means "the god" which is a name of god.
Your statement that "tuhan" means Lord or Rabb is also wrong, because....
"tuhan" is a noun meaning "god"
"Lord" is a name of "god" or "tuhan"
You cannot substitue a noun 'god" with a name Lord or Rabb.!!!
Rabb or Lord means "Tuanku" in Malay.
So the right word for "Rabb" or "Lord" is "Tuanku" and not "Allah".!!!
2) The Christian said:
How can they
suggest that Christians simply use the word Tuhan to substitute the
word Allah? To express the issue linguistically, Allah and Tuhan have
different senses even though they have the same reference.
the terms Allah and Tuhan are used in the Malay Bible.
2) Pak Yeh's reply:
Read my no.1) refutation above and you will realize that what you say does not make sense.!!!
3) The Christian said:
precedent set by Arab Christians, Allah is used to translate el/elohim
and Tuhan (or TUHAN in caps) is used to translate Yahweh (YHWH). The two
words are sometimes paired together as Yahweh-Elohim in 372 places in
the Old Testament (14 times in Genesis 2-3; 4 times in Exodus; 8 times
in Joshua; 7 times in 2 Samuel; 22 times in Chronicles; 12 times in
Psalms; 32 times in Isaiah; 16 times in Jeremiah and 210 times in
3) Pak Yeh's refutation:
Ha,ha.!"tuhan" in caps(capital letters) !!! That verily is a lie.!!!
There is no capital letters for a noun. !!!
Capital letters are only for names.!!!
Besides, there is no capital letters in Hebrew,Arab.Malay,English for the noun "tuhan".!!!
(Note: Capital G isu is the mistranslation of "La illa ha illAllah" into "There is no god but God.")
Got you Christians.!!! You are a bunch of liars.!!!
4) The Christian said:
More importantly, the word Tuhan is also applied
to Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Thus we read of the LORD Jesus as
Tuhan Yesus (The word LORD was used to translate the word kurios 8,400
times in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament. It
refers to human beings in only 400 times and refers to God 8,000 times.
Of these 8,000 times, 6,700 are substitute for the word YHWH). The
transference of the title kurios LORD/YHWH to Jesus Christ is testimony
to the belief in the deity of Christ right at the beginning of
This simple statistical survey shows clearly that
the demand by Muslim demonstrators that Christians simply substitute the
word Allah with Tuhan is unreasonable since it renders many Biblical
references to God and Jesus Christ incoherent.
4)Pak Yeh's reply:
All that statistics and statement does not give you the right to mistranslaye "god" a noun to "Allah" a name.!!!
5) The Christian said:
First, the substitution
is incorrect since the meaning of Allah and Tuhan are different.
5) Pak Yeh's reply:
Agreed. "Allah" is a name and "tuhan" is a noun. You cannot trnslate a noun "tuhan" for a name "Allah".!!!
6) The Christian said:
it creates an absurd situation when Christians try to translate the
paired words Tuhan Allah (LORD God). Are Christians now required to call
the LORD God, Tuhan Tuhan? This sounds like committing linguistic
redundancy. Worse still, the repeated words Tuhan Tuhan come across to
Malay readers as suggesting that Christians believe in a plurality of
Lords/Gods (since the plural form in Malay is expressed by repeating the
noun and setting them in apposition).
6) Pak Yeh's reply:
You got that absurd situation "Tuhan,tuhan" sentence because you mistranslated Lord to Tuhan.
As said before, "tuhan" is a noun, as such it cannot replace with "Lord" a name.
The right translation is "Tuanku" tuhan ku" or the Arab word "Rabbi tuhan ku".
Substituting "Lord" for Allah is wrong as Allah means "The God" and not "Lord"
It looks like you mistranslated your Gospel in Arab and in Malay. Ha,ha,ha.
What a foolish blunder in Arab and Malay translations.!!!
7) The Christian said:
Finally, Christians are
unable to express the Lordship of Jesus Christ as one who is distinct
from the Father and yet shares with the God of the Old Testament, the
name that is above every other name — kurios/Tuhan (Philippians 2:9, cf.
Isaiah 45:23). In other words, Christians are rendered unable to affirm
the deity of Jesus Christ and teach the doctrine of Trinity without the
foundational words that maintain the semantic relationship between the
words Allah and Tuhan as they are applied distinctively in the Malay
7) Pak Yeh's reply :
Of course, that statement is correct. You cannot proof the deity of Jesus even if you use Yaweh the Bible god instead of Allah That is because Yaweh said he is a "One God" and not a "trinity god".Refer Isaiah 43:10,11,12 "I am the only god.There is no god before me an there is no god after me.And there is no Savior except me."
The Old Tesrtament verse proves that the Bible god is not a trinity.!!! As such Jesus is not a god/deity.!!!Only the New Testament/Gospels,which is the word of man/priest and not the word of god says tthat Jesus is god, and contradicting Yaweh the Bible god.!!!.
Even with your own original Bible god's name, you cannot prove Jesus' diety, how then can you prove Jesus' dirty with the use of Allah,???
This task is even more impossibly when Allah says in Quran 5:72,73
surely disbelieve (kafir) who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The
Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and
your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath
forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be
surely disbelieve (kafir) who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there
is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful
doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve."
Maybe Christian would want to debate with me at the comments column.???
Let's debate intelligently to make things clearer. and more understandable.!!!
Let us then choose the version of truth of the winner of this debate.!!!
Christians must stop using Allah if you lose this debate.!!!