Hornbill Unleashed
November 1, 2010
The parade of “Muslim sensitivities”: Where is it taking us?
1) The writer said:
government’s ban of the words “Allah”, “solat”, “Kaabah” and “Baitullah” among non-Muslims.
Even though Muslims don’t own copyright to these Arabic words, the BN government is asserting that these words belong to Muslims, and Muslims alone.
1)Pak Yeh says:
A copyright does exist...if copyright laws was backdated to the prophet Mohammads time.!!!
It is immoral for Christians to change Gods name Yarweh as per your Bible to Father and then to Allah and then blaspheme Allah by saying that He is a Trinity with Jesus and The Holy Spirit as Gods.!!!
You do not have Yarwehs nor Allah's permission to change Gods name and blaspheme both Yarweh and Allah by saying that Yarweh and Allah is a Trinity.!!!
By doing that you are blaspeming both the Bible God and the Quran God.!!!
Anyway since you change your God to Allah, why not change your book to Allah's last book,the Quran too.???
This abuse of the word Allah by Christians by making Allah a Trinity is a "declaration of war on Muslims and their religion".!!!"
It is mischief making by you Christians.!!!
You Christians cant help but tell lies about Yarweh and Allah by making them a Trinity.!!!
These mischievious and blaspemouse Christians are doing the job for Satan/Lucifer, the first lier.!!!
1.1)written by Pakyeh, November 01, 2010 20:46:20
Heh,heh. No Christians able to debate and defend their religion of deciet,deception and lies and blasphemy upon the One God Allah and Yarweh.by making them a trinity???
Old Testamenr Bible,Isaih 10,11,12 "I am the only God.There is no God before Me and nietheris there any God after Me..There is no Xavior except Me.
You Christians contradict and blaspheme your own religion by saying that there are other gods (Jesus and the Holy Spirit) besides Yarweh your Bible God.
You Christians are liers and followers of the first liar Lucifer.!!!
And now you want to do the same thing to Allah.!!! Why.??? Your bible does not say your god is Allah.!!!
Why so stupid want to use Allah.??? Why want to blaspheme Allah by saying Jesus and holy spirit is also god when Allah is the one who created them.!!!
Why so stupid ah Christians.???
Bodoh, Bangang, and Bagero punya Christians.!!!
Rootcause of the Church burnings is your stupidity to abuse the name of Allah by saying that Allah is a Trinity .!!!
Use your own Bible lah.!!!
Call your God Father,Yarweh or whatever the Bible calls God by.!!!
Dont use other peoples God when your Bible has the name of your own God.!!!
Stupid Christians.!!!
2)written by Catharsis, November 01, 2010 22:47:51
Pak Yeh I wonder why the Koran has so many references to the Bible's Old Testaments, Jesus, Moses, Mary, Abraham................and don't you think it is stupid of you to make a mockery of the bible as Jesus your holy prophet says he is the Son of God- would you call him a liar?
2)Pak Yeh reply.
Quran is Gods final book/last chapter to correct the contraditions in the Bible such as Trinity,son of God,Mother of God etc. Jesus never said he is son of God. Your Priest adopted the Greek mythology of Hercules.!!!
Jesus said "Dont say I am "Good" only God is "Good".That is proof from the Gospel that Jesus in not God.!!!
Jesus is son of God.??? Since when have God been screwing virgin girls to get sons or daughters.???
Heh,heh,heh You Christians certainly screwed up your religion.!!! Very idiotic of you.to belief in your Priest and disbelief in your Bible Isiah 10,11,12."I am the only God.There is no God before Me.There is no God after Me.There is no Savior except Me."!!!
Now you want to screw up Allah and Islam.by calling Allah a Trinity and having a son like your screwed up religion.!!!
You Trinity Christians must be followers of "Lucifer,the first liar", to say that the One God/Allah/Yarweh is three.!!!.
Stop blspeming Allah the One God of Islam and Yarweh, the One God of your own Bible.!!!
If you dont the One God/Allah/Yarweh will give you hell. !!!
3)written by Catharsis, November 01, 2010 05:16:25
FOUR QUESTIONS: (1) Are the faith of Muslims so weak that they can be easily influenced to change their faith? (2) Why accept Christ as a HOLY PROPHET when you do not accept HIS FOLLOWERS AND BELIEVERS? (3) If the KORAN accepts THE PEOPLE OF THE SCRIPTURES= WHO ARE YOU to impose your will on them- what they can do and what they cannot do? (4) Are you being infantile and stupid?....................My friend read your Koran in English and Malay - in a language that you can understand and NOT JUST RECITE BLINDLY IN ARABIC- for this is the cause of your ignorance and stupidity
3))Pakyehs Answer.
1)That is not the issue. The issue is the immoral and mischiefvious changing of the meaning of Allah ,the One God ito Three Gods by you blasphemouse Christians.!!!
You Bible did not mention Allah,so why are you mentioning Allah.???
Answer.!!! Or else prepare for hellfire.!!!
2)Muslim accept Jesus as a prophet of Allah but not Jesus as God and son of God.
Christians are not only contradicting Allahs Quran but also contradicting their own Bible Isaih 10,11,12 "I am the Only God. There in no God before, nor after Me.There is no Savior except Me."
3) Muslims accept" the people of the Scriptures"( the Unitary Jews/Christians), but we do not accept "the people who corrupted the Scriptures",ie the Trinity Christians.
4)We are definitely not infantile and stupid. You are, espacially when you cannot defend your own religion.via a debate like the one we are having now.
No Debate means you loose.!!! Checkmate.!!!
3.1)written by Pakyeh, November 02, 2010 15:23:25
The Parade of "Christian Insensitivities". Where is it taking us ?
Christian have no reason whatsoever to change their Gods name to Allah, because their Bible did not mention Allah as their God.!!!
Its the devil Lucifer that told them(Christians) to do that, and to blaspheme Allah by saying that Allah is a Trinity of gods together with Jesus and the Holy spirit.!!!
Blaspheming Allah is a very serious offence.!!!
It is like trying to corrupt the Muslim religion of Islam, by saying Allah is a Trinity and has a son.!!!
It is an enroachment into the Muslim religion of Islam by Christians.!!!
It is also a declaration of war on Muslims and their religion.!!!
Read more "Christian dogmas debunked", Yo Christians ! God did not come out of a vigina." and "Use not abuse of the word Allah" at ...
http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com
63 comments:
STUPID OLD MAN...NO WONDER YOU ARE SO BACKWARDS AND CAN NVR MOVE BEYOND YOUR SHALLOW AND SMALL MIND
Heh,heh Anonymouse.
Thats all you can say.???
No brains to debate.???
Who is the stupid one now.???
No wounder you follow Lucifer by and telling lies/blaspheme about one God that became three!!!
You say its one God.Then next you say its three gods!!! What hipocrites and idiots.!!! Cant even make sense of simple Arithmatics.!!!
Pak Yeh, your argument is very simple. Any religion that contradicts yours is blasphemous stupid, and nonsense. Ban it!
But the reality is not so simple. We have committed to freedom of religion in this country, by a Constitutio of our own making. No one can publicly denigrade Islam becos it is the official religion. But we are free to practice our own religion. I can call my god Lucifer or any name I want, or Allah, if I wish. It will be my choice and my religion within confines of the law. What does it concern a Muslim what I call my God? As long as I do not represent it as the Islamic religion, it shall be within my right to practice my own religion, I can worship pigs or phallic symbols, or bottles of alcohol or anything Muslims consider unclean, but it shall still be my own religion and no one can remove this right from me under our Constitution!
Hehe, the idea of killing people so that we can get to screw 72 virgins in heaven is so preposterous that it had me laughing till I almost choked. Barack Obama can procure me more virgins that that I am sure, so he must be more powerful than Allah. hehe
Dear Anonymouse 2,
I agree with freedom of religion as guarenteed by the Costitution.
But the Constitution does not say you can have the freedom to blaspheme our God Allah by saying that He is a Trinity.
Allah is not your God. Your God is what the original Bible in Latin calls god,ie Yarweh.!!!
You have a wrongly translated Bible. Translations never change Gods name. Only false and mischief making translators will change gods name.
Dear Anonymouse 3,
I do not belief in the 72 virgins. It is a hadis and Allah says in the Quran 31:6 "Some people use vain hadis to mislead others from the straight path(Islam),without knowledge, and make a mockery of it(Islam)
Pak Yeh, you are missing my point. If I were Christian, it shall consider it offensive for Muslims to interfere in what I call my god. As long as I do not call my religion Islam, I should have the right to call my god Allah or any other name, even Lucifer, if I so wish. What right does the government or Muslims to interfere in the practice of my own religion? I did not represent to anyone that this religion of mine is Islam, so why should Muslims interfere with what name I ascribe to my god? That is plainly unconstitutional.
Anonymous said...
Pak Yeh, you are missing my point. If I were Christian, it shall consider it offensive for Muslims to interfere in what I call my god.
Pak Yehs answer
I am not missing ant point.
If you are a Christian,you should call your god according to how the Bible calls god,Yarweh or Father.
You are using Allah a Muslim/Quran word, and changing its meaning into three god.
This an enroahment into our religion and the Qurans copyright of the word Allah as defined in the Quran.Copyright Law should be applicabele to any book and any time, to prevent plaigraim).
That is mischief making and blasphemous to Islam the Muslim religion.
It is also blaspemous to your own religion,because you wrongly translated a name(proper noun).The rule is..you only translate a word(noun).
It is glaring that you mistranslated your Bible.!!!
Why this mistranslation.???
Some say to confuse and to convert the Muslim.
This is true espacially in Egypt and Lebenon where the French and later the British mistranslated the originally Latin Bible.
The same thing happened in Indonesia and Malaysia. It was a Colonial con job to convert Muslims.!!!
What other reason fot changing the Christian God Yarweh and Father to Allah.???
If to convert the Malays and Indons only, then you could have used Tuhan.!!! Which is more appropiate.
Nyekkk.!!! Christian con job exposed.!!!
Again Pak Yeh, Muslims are stepping on religious freedom which you just admitted that we are given according to our Constitution. It is none of the business of Muslims whether or not Christians are committing sacrilege to their own religion. Whether or not their translation of the Bible is accurate is only the business of Christians to address and not Muslims or Buddhists. It is not within the locus standi of the government or or of Islamic authorities in Malaysia to regulate other religions, what they can or cannot do within their own religion. Catholics in East Malaysia DO NOT REPRESENT that in using the name Allah as God in their worship of their religion, that theirs is the same religion as Islam. Are you equating Catholicism with the religion preached by Ayah Pin? So how could it be sacrilegious to Islam as you claim? Indeed, if your view is even universal amongst Muslims, why is it not considered sacrilegious to Islam in Indonesia? Are you claiming that Islamic scholars in Indonesia are not competent or not as sophisticated as those in Malaysia such as yourself? That would be a laugh for the world's biggest Islamic population. 250 million Muslims in Indonesia will not agree with you. In poking fun of others' religion as in your bit on the Trinity, remember others can also poke holes in the apparent illogicity of your own religion, such as the other Anonymous' view of the 72 Houri virgins (may I also ask that for Muslim women headed for Heaven, what pleasure is there in the offer of female virgin "Companions" in Heaven and why is heaven just an extension or earthly pleasures? If heavenly rewards were so simple as tasty fruits and female sex, as Anonymous said, Barrack Obama could offer more to him than Allah can). May I also remind you that for some Muslims, you are committing sacrilege by denying the validity of the Hadith. But you are not of my religion and I shall not poke my nose into your act of apparent sacrilege. In my view, all religions are dogmatic, so all are sama sama illogical. You are required not to exercise logic and rational thinking in religion, just acceptance and surrender of logic. None is so clearly superior to all others.
Anonymouse said.In my view, all religions are dogmatic, so all are sama sama illogical. You are required not
to exercise logic and rational thinking in religion, just acceptance and surrender of logic.
A debate is useless if a person negates logic.
It just means you are refusing to use your brains.
If you do use your brain you will come to a conclusion that changing your Gods name is immoral.
I is also immoral to baspheme the Muslim god Allah by saying that he is Three.
I dont care and cannot care if you blaspheme your Bible God Yarweh. But you are blaspheming our God Allah and our religion Islam. This is interfering with our religion.This a breach of copyrights act of the Quran. Yet you claim that we are interfering with your religion.Your religion says your God is Yarweh, so use Yarweh la.!!!
I dont care about Indonesia and Arab countries stand. They are still colonised mentally by Dutch,british,French.
You are just anti logic as you yourself said.
Thats why you cannot see the truth.!!!
Why bother to debate if you are anti logic.Debaters all use logic to defend themself from being conned by their Priest.
Because you dont use logic,thats whya your Priests can easyly conn you.!!!
Christians using Allah.??? Heh,heh very funny .!!!
Better for you to read Allahs book,the Quran if you call your God Allah.!!!
Otherwise you will be a hippocrit, who belief in Allah but do not belief in Allah's Book.!!!
Open your mind please.!!!
Use logic to understand God.!!!
Dont let the Priest and Satan fool you.!!!
Pak Yeh, for your info, I am not Christian. I said even before you did, that religion cannot find solid ground on logic or rationalisation. It is by definition, dogmatic and demands complete faith and acceptance/surrender to what may be in moments of retrospect, utter rubbish. That's exactly why some people turn apostates. In a saner moment, they may decide their religion is utter rubbish. Still, I find your eagerness to engage in an intrusion into others' practice of their religion really arrogant. Your claim that I have been conned by priests holds no water. I do not bother about whether or not there is truth in the Christian religion. Actually, I lean towards the opinion there is no truth in that religion. But that is beside the point. I simply think your tirade against Catholics is baseless and born of pure emotion without regard for reason and against the Constitution of our country. As you admitted, there is freedom of religion here. I emphasised before and again here Catholics do not claim their religion is Islam. They happen to use the same name for their god (due to a common cultural/historical/geographical backdrop from which each religion arose) as you do but they DO NOT REPRESENT (emphasis again for your attention) their religion to be the same as yours. You seem to ignore this point again and again. This is different from Ayah Pin and deviant sects in Islam, for they portray theirs as the true version of Islam. Your religious authorities then have jurisdiction over what they preach and what they say. Not so for Catholics and so they should therefore be allowed to call their god anything they wish, Yahweh, Jehovah, even Lucifer if they wish. None of anyone else's business.
Actually, this is the reason I am not inclined towards embracing neither Islam nor Christianity. The conduct of their followers, whatever is claimed as virtue for these 2 religions, is completely negated by the irrational and often bizarre or violent behavior of their followers. Religious wars are a complete antithesis to the religions they each profess to embrace and this puts me off completely. Pure insanity for this age and time. I suppose it is due to their immutable/changeless nature owing to their acceptance as absolute truths, writings from the distant past. Funny, the cult of trying to imitate exactly superficial attributes of the holy prophet, such as beards, even clothings of a bygone era. Time just stood still, that's why I get the feeling that some remnant of barbarism clings on with such tenacity in both religions!
Pak Yeh, the only basis in trying to resolve any debate over an issue is logical reasoning. There is no other way. If you bash others over the head and insist you are right, that is not a debate, only pure brute force. For your info, I am not Christian. I said before you did, that religion cannot find solid ground on logic. It is by definition, dogmatic and demands complete faith and acceptance/surrender to what may be in moments of retrospect, realised to be utter rubbish. I suppose that's why some people turn apostates. Still, I find your eagerness to engage in an intrusion into others' practice of their religion really arrogant. I actually lean towards the opinion there is no truth in Christianity. But that is beside the point. I simply think your tirade against Catholics is born of pure emotion without regard for reasoning and against the Constitution of Malaysia. You accept there is freedom of religion per Malaysia's Constitution. Yet you inconsistently argue that another religion cannot ascribe the concept of the Trinity to a god they also happen to call Allah. As I said before Catholics do not claim their religion is Islam. In some countries they happen to use the same name for their god (due to a common cultural/historical/geographical backdrop from which each religion arose) as you do but they DO NOT REPRESENT (emphasis again for your attention) their religion to be the same as yours. You seem to ignore this last point again and again. I am not sure why. This is different from Ayah Pin and deviant sects in Islam, for they portray theirs as the true version of Islam. Your religious authorities then have jurisdiction over what they preach and what they say. Not so for Catholics and so they should therefore be allowed to call their god anything they wish, Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah, even Lucifer if they wish. None of anyone else's business.
BTW, it is a complete mystery to me why Allah is claimed as Muslim copyrighted when Jesus, Moses, Abraham, are not. Why this is so since in totality, all such persona make up the essence of both religions is a mystery to me. Care to explain?
BTW, u are so inconsistent. U maintain on some occasions that when it comes to religion, "You are required not to exercise logic and rational thinking in religion, just acceptance and surrender of logic". Yet in your last sentence you agree to the use of logic and exhort me to use logic to understand God. Wow, such great thinking. I am impressed.
Anonymous no 6 said :
BTW, u are so inconsistent. U maintain on some occasions that when it comes to religion, "You are required not to exercise logic and rational thinking in religion, just acceptance and surrender of logic". Yet in your last sentence you agree to the use of logic and exhort me to use logic to understand God. Wow, such great thinking. I am impressed.
Pak Yeh says:
I never said "You are required not to exercise logic and rational thinking in religion, just acceptance and surrender of logic".
What is this.? An attempt to tell a lie.??? liars are followers of Lucifer,the Chief Liar.!!!
Lucifer is the one who created Trinitarian Christianity by corrupting Bible Isaiah 10,11,12."I am the only God.There is no God before nor after me.There is no Savior except me".!!!
Anonymous said:
I said before you did, that religion cannot find solid ground on logic. It is by definition, dogmatic and demands complete faith and acceptance/surrender to what may be in moments of retrospect, realised to be utter rubbish.
Religion is dogmatic and non logic you say.???
I is only so with Christianity and some other religions.!!!
It is not so with Islam.!!!
Allah in the Quran tells us to debate and accept the best views.Refer Quran 39:18 "Listen to all views.Choose the best. These are the guided and intelligent."!!!
A religion that is dogmatic and forbids the use of reason/logic, is a false religion,propogated by those in power in order to enslave and stupify mankind.!!!
Anonymous said:
I simply think your tirade against Catholics is born of pure emotion without regard for reasoning and against the Constitution of Malaysia. You accept there is freedom of religion per Malaysia's Constitution. Yet you inconsistently argue that another religion cannot ascribe the concept of the Trinity to a god they also happen to call Allah. As I said before Catholics do not claim their religion is Islam. In some countries they happen to use the same name for their god (due to a common cultural/historical/geographical backdrop from which each religion arose) as you do but they DO NOT REPRESENT (emphasis again for your attention) their religion to be the same as yours. You seem to ignore this last point again and again. I am not sure why. This is different from Ayah Pin and deviant sects in Islam,
Are you sure you understand the Constitutuon.
Never mind the Constitution. We have oue constitution in the Quran that gives freedom of practice of other religions. However there is overlaping such as the Christians whose God is Yarweh changing their God to Allah.
I am against this because Quran is a book, and books have copyrights. According to our book our God is Allah. According to Christians book/Bible, their God is Yarweh or Father,depending on Latin oe Aramic originals.
The Christians not using their own Gods name as per the Bible is sacriledge to thei religion and alsa sacriledge to our religion by blaspheming Allah into three Gods.
You see is not us who started this misunderstanding(enroahment into others religion). It is the Christians immoral behavior of changiung their gods name and blaspheming it with Trinity and son of god..!!!
We Muslims have ever right to criticise the Christians for blasphemy because we are the Unitary God religion of Jesus,Moses,Abraham.
it is like criticisiang our own self too. Anyway, we are debating the Truth. That is not against the Constitution. Even if we forbid the Christian use of the word Allah, there is good reason and Truth in it.!!!
Anonymous said :
BTW, it is a complete mystery to me why Allah is claimed as Muslim copyrighted when Jesus, Moses, Abraham, are not. Why this is so since in totality, all such persona make up the essence of both religions is a mystery to me. Care to explain?
Let me enlighten you of this mystery...
1)The religion of Abraham,Moses Jesus and Mohammad is one and the same. It is the religion of One God.As long as you profess in One and only one God you are what Allah says.."The people on the Book and the Islam/Peace realigion".
The prophet Mohammad came to undo the ascribing of other gods to the One God, Yarweh and Allah.
Prophet Mohammad preached that he is the keeper of the original Islam/Peace religion of the One God.!!!
I hope I have debated all issues brought up. If I havent, do remind me. Its always better to number the issues you wish to debate so that I do not mis it.
Even so there could be an oversight.
Thanks very much for working towards understanding the Truth.
Dogmas are lies repeated many times till it becomes a truth.!!!
Beware of dogmas in every religion.!!!
Truth is Logic and Reason.!!!
May God give us reason and logic in orser to be able to see the Truth.!!!
Those who do not use reason and logic to understand their religion is like cows and domestic animals that dont use their mind.!!!
pak yeh,
You're outdated lah!
Christians are not required to believe Jesus is God nor in the Trinity !
The essence between Judaism, Islam and Christianity is the belief in the oneness of God or One God, monotheism. In modern day terms, as a layman, all three belief in the same "God".
The differences are largely political just as UMNO have their own funny ideas about some Islamic laws or rites, whereas PAS differs in another sense, the fundamental sense.
The God that spoke to Moses, Abraham, Jesus and Mohammed is the same One God! That's why the Torah, Old Testament are important parts of Islam's holy books or scriptures.
As far as food is concerned, Man lives by tradition and culture. Old Arab traditions and culture also became part of Islamic beliefs. It is a fact that the pig, one of Allah's creatures, used to be to the Arab what used to be the cow to the Hindus. Pigs and cows thrive and live under very difficult conditions and they sustain human life. In the desert of the Middle East, in addition to the camel, the pig still is a "hardy" creature but are now bred under more hygienic conditions and therefore don't carry viruses that make people go "mad", which under Islamic doctrine is not right, or haram.
...continues..1/2
...continuing from 1/2
- 2/2 -
You do know that even cows can be bad for humans - remember the "mad cow disease"?
Islamic education in Malaysia has an important feature - what is "sanctioned" by government and what is in a way "open" by being faithful to Islamic traditions and doctrines as the "SAR". The present political dissent in Malaysia, esp among Muslims, is fundamentally because of this. People who came through the "SAR" system have more "independent" opinions than those who came through "government" sanctioned Islamic education. This is important now for Malaysia because the present government that controls Islam is purely political - they might be pliant or compliant to old colonial imperialist conditioning. And for Malaysia the British colonial heritage is very influential especially where Malaysian Muslim bizmen are concerned.
We should try and be less naive and be more "open" and learn from everyone and not just declare those who have different opinions or beliefs simply as kafir and therefore bad.
The Qur'an has verses about ethnicities and different religions that Allah encourage us to learn from each other.
If we didn't learn from the Christians, you won't be able to blog anyway! :-))
Anonymous said...
pak yeh,
You're outdated lah!
Christians are not required to believe Jesus is God nor in the Trinity !
You must be the original followers of Jesus with Yarweh as your God.We dont mind Unitarian Christians using the word Allah.
Its the Trinity Christians that are blspheming Allah and our religion Islam. In fact, your religion of Yarweh(Bible old testament) too is Islam and so is the One God religion of Moses and Abraham.Even sects of Hindu and Budhist who worship One God is also Islam as inclusive One God religion.
Those who say God is more then One God is Kafir/Dexbelievers/Decievers.!!!
Thats what Allah said in the Quran.!!!
So what is the problem.???
If you want to use Allah,taht is not a problem as you do not blasphe Allah by sayin he has a son and is a Trinity.!!!
But you might as well belief in Allahs Book, the Quran.!!!
Anonymouse said :
It is a fact that the pig, one of Allah's creatures, used to be to the Arab what used to be the cow to the Hindus.
Your religion the Bible old testament too tells you not to eat the pig.!!!
Not eating the pig is a commandment like not to eat the apple of the Adam and Eve story.
Anonymouse said :
We should try and be less naive and be more "open" and learn from everyone and not just declare those who have different opinions or beliefs simply as kafir and therefore bad.
Shall I listen to you or to Allah.???
Allah has said in the Quran that those who have more than One God are kafirs/disbelivers and decievers/blasphemers of Allah the One God.!!
Anonymous said :
If we didn't learn from the Christians, you won't be able to blog anyway! :-))
Bring the history back to the European Dark Ages to be fait.!!!
If Christians have not learned from Muslim Scientist, the would still belief the earth is flat and know nothing about sciences.!!!
"...Bring the history back to the European Dark Ages to be fait.!!! ..."
Don't be silly, pak yeh!
Isn't it obvious that God or Allah is smarter? If God were to depend on the Arabs/Muslims or whoever, and not bless all his creation we'd still have silly Malaysian Muslims who believe in puaka and hantu with 1.7 bil Muslims still living in poverty while God's gifts are trapped by the Arabs for bombs, guns, bullets and girls!
God Bless!
Anonymous said :
"...Bring the history back to the European Dark Ages to be fair.!!! ..."
Don't be silly, pak yeh!
Its you who started this silly thing by claiming Christians are smart. But when you see history, they are the stupid ones burning othger Christians like the Spanish Inquition.Some scientist got burned too.
The truth of the matter is science is a different religion altogether.
["...Isn't it obvious that God or Allah is smarter? ..."]
pak yeh, pak yeh!
I didn't say Christians are smart. I said God or Allah is smarter!
You're hallucinating.
Lay off the stuff! :-))
Anonymous said :
You're hallucinating.
Lay off the stuff! :-))
Dont simly say lah.
Those who pray to One God are not halucinating.They are sane.
Those who say they pray to One God and yet say there is three gods are halucinating and are insane.
Heh,heh,heh.
Checkmate.!!!
"Checkmate.!!!"
pak yeh! pak yeh!
If it makes you happier instead of shooting dragons ! :-))
Allow me to quote from the Qur'an just part of Light 24:35 -
"...Light upon light.
Allah guideth unto his light whom he will.
And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is knower of all things."
Stay well, pak yeh! Chow!
Dear Pak Yeh. This entire post was uncalled for. I can see you are intelligent enough to have considered the implications of why this Allah issue was politicised by UMNO. It was all about votes. The name Allah was used by the Christians in Palestine 500 years before Mohamed was born. You DO know this dont you? And it was used in Malaysia for more than 100 years by the Catholics in East Malaysia before UMNO officials decided to gain political mileage with it. No one knows the name of God. When Moses asked Him who He was, He said, "I Am Who I Am". Translated from Hebrew, a religion without vowels, it means YHWH. I could go into an explanation of how the Triune nature of God was revealed but you wouldnt listen. So lets talk about this from another angle. If you know that Christians believe that God is a Trinity, and the Christians called this Trinitarian God Allah, and if Mohamed recognised that the God who called him to service was this same God, why are you argueing here? Are you saying that my father is now your father, and as such, I cannot call Him Father? This entire episode is a black spot in Malaysian history. When the Christians and Muslims in Arabia, Egypt, Indonesia and Iran/Iraq call God Allah, are they being Christians or Muslims? Ar os everyone praying to the One God, Creator of all? When the APS president said that PAS welcomes the court's decision on the use of Allah for all, because it only reinforces the belief of the Muslims that there is only one God, and He is worshipped by all, do you disagree? Ok, let the games begin. If you want a sensible debate, please try to shrink your replies into short sentences. I dont have time to read loooooong replies to extract the points.
colin said...
Dear Pak Yeh. This entire post was uncalled for. I can see you are intelligent enough to have considered the implications of why this Allah issue was politicised by UMNO. It was all about votes.
Uncalled for.??? When you abused the name of Allah,its uncalled for.???
It has nothing to do with votes/politics. If UMNO wants more votes, they should not have prevented the use of Allah. RThgat should get more votes from East ,alaysia.
The real reason is The British used used Abdullah Mushi to mistranslate the Malay Quran and insert Allah itu it, without cosideration for the truth of translations.
Using Allah in a Malay Bible translation is wrong. The word is Tuhan in Malay.
Dont be an idiaot and say you do not know this.
Colin said :
The name Allah was used by the Christians in Palestine 500 years before Mohamed was born.
Yeah, but this is not Palestine.In malay the right translation is Tuhan.
Poit of contention though. In Arabic the word for god is Illah not Allah.Allah is a word only used by Muslims originally.
To say otherwise, you have to provide the original Bible in Aramic.
1)Do you have the Gospels in Aramic to proof that Allah was used in the original Bible.???
2)Why do you need to call you god Allah when your Bible calls god by other names.???
Are you and honest man? If UMNO wasn't using the name of God for political advancement, why, pray tell, did they bring this up after 100 years? Did someone in UMNO suddenly grow a braincell? Once again, dude, are you an honest man? Is there no political agenda here? When christians and moslems all over the world can use the same name to call upon God, why are the muslims in Malaysia so dim that they can be influenced to convert to Christianity? Did you consider becoming a Christian when you first heard they were praying to Allah?
You admit that Allah was used by Christians 500 years before Mohammed was born. And then you say that the British allowed the name to be used in the Bible. So if there is no political motivation here, why is it suddenly a big deal if both religions use the same name to call upon God? When Mohamed used the name Allah to describe the God who had called him to service, did he know that this was a triune God? And did he actually mean to lead all Arabs to worship that same God?
If you say there are 2 gods, one for the Muslims and one for the Christians, are you saying the Quran is wrong? The Shahadat says "There is One God. And Mohamed is His prophet". Is the Quran wrong?
I've read the blasphemy you wrote earlier, calling Jesus into association with lucifer and all the other nonsense. It was clearly mischevious and disrespectfull. Are you a true Muslim? Or the kind who kills little children hoping to get a bunch of virgins in the afterlife?
Last question, what did you feel about the coordinated attacks on the churches this year? And what did you feel about the Al Islam journalists who desecrated the Holy Eucharist?
Dear Colin,
Before I can answer your questions, you have to answer mine.That is proper debate procedure.
I enclose the uestions again again.
1)Do you have the Gospels in Aramic to proof that Allah was used in the original Bible.??? Or any book to proof that Allah was used by Palestinians 500 years before profet Mohammad did.???
2)Why do you need to call you god Allah when your Bible calls god by other names.???
Comon,be an honest debater and dont try to evade the debate.
I first learnt the origins of the name Allah at a talk I attended at the International Islamic University in PJ in 1997. I dont actually have a Bible written in Aramaic. Over the years and especially since 2008 when UMNO and their jaguh kampungs like yourself decided to take a non issue which has prevailed for 100 years and turn it into religious priviledge, I have heard many many scholars saying that the roots of the name Allah is from the Christians. OK. I know you are unable to answer my challenges, so you come up with this Aramaic bible challenge.
You sir are a rabble rouser. Hoping to grandstand your personally concocted crusade against the Christians. I wonder when people like you will get on humanitiy's bandwagon and behave like a global citizen, like a man of God, who promotes unity and love. Not hate and conflict.
Irony is that UMNO created this Allah controversy to fish for votes from the Malays. And they do this to remain in power so they can continue their corrupt ways. Its the Malays who will eventually pay for this.
Dear Colin.
There you are, you are still not answering my questions.
The truth is you do not have any documents Bible or whatever,to prove your copyright on the word Allah.
Whereas Muslims have copyright over the word Allah in the book Quran.
So answer Question no 2.2)Why do you need to call you god Allah when your Bible calls god by other names.???
I suppose you dont have an answer to it.??? My answer is that your priest is a mischief maker like Lucifer/Satam who likes blaspheming Allah the same way they blasphemed Yarweh the Bible one god. Proof.. Isiah 10,11,12"I am the only god.There is no god before me and no god after me".
As for politics It is no the issue. It is a remedial procedure for National Security and for Muslim sensitivity towards Christian abuse of the word Allah by adding Trinity and son of god to it.
The fact that you have used it for 100 years is just our oversight. The real issue is that you Christians have insulted Allah and His religion Islam.
It is our right to tell you not to use Allah because 99% of Christians throught out the world do not use the word Allah,and also, because you Christians blaspheme Allah by saying he is three and has a son.
Colin said :
You admit that Allah was used by Christians 500 years before Mohammed was born.
Pak Yeh Answer:
Heh,heh.You trying to pull a fast one, like Lucifer/Satan did with Adan and Eve.???
I never said that. You said that. I ask for document to proof Palestinians used Allah 500 years before prophet Mohamad but you cannot provide any.
Heh,heh you are aliar like Lucifer/Satan the first liar to tell lies.
You Christians saying Allah is three and has a son are all lies again, because Allah himself says otherwise in his book,the Quran.
You use Allah as your god,yet you dont read his book,the Quran. Isnt that a lie again.???
You also made Yarweh the one god of the Bible (as per Isaih 10,11,12)into three gods and gave him a son. Thats another lie again.
By Allah Colin, you Allah calling Christians are great liars man.!!!
Colin said:
I thought this was a debate between intellectuals? All you can contribute to this is to insult. And that too, without even reading the entire post I made. Alright then, let me repeat. I learnt the origin of the use of the name Allah at a talk at the Islamic University in PJ. The speaker was a muslim scholar.
The court case on the use of the name revolved around whether ALlah was used as a verb or a noun. IE: Whether God's name in the Malay language was Allah or Tuhan. The highest court in the land, (and bear in mind this is an extremely paternalistic, racist administration which discriminates against minorities), concluded that a sudden change of mind by the home ministry was frivolous and unnecessary.
I personally have NEVER used Allah in worship. But millions of Christians do and have been doing this for many years. Now IF (and let me concede that without proof, its only an "IF") Mohamed took this name from the Christians as the muslim scholars say, then there is no arguement here. But if the communities in Greater Arabia and the entire Muslim world have been using this name to call upon the name of God, then a small splinter of muslims hiding behind the excuse of NATIONAL SECURITY to exert religious superiority are not going to win any arguements unless they answer my questions.
To escape my questions, you choose to use insults. Other than an uninformed criticism of the Trinitarian Doctrine you have nothing. Nothing.
I know you're not going to answer any of my questions. All you know to do is call me liar, equate God as lucifer and all the other insults. This is whats been going on all over the world for centuries among muslims with shias killing sunnis who kill shias who kill sunnis. Its all about differences of opinion with no intention of finding a middle ground.
Ok buddy, loosen your filth and let loose the insults. You aint got nothing else dude.
Cheers
Ok let me answer your questions so you will be satisfied.
I learnt from Muslim scholars that Mohamed used the name of God that the others were using at the time. Your question is, is there proof? Nope. None. Only the word of Anthropologists. Not enough for you? Just like I'm sure Jesus and Mohamed were really born. Physical proof? sorry, none.
2nd question. Why do I want to use the name Allah when the Bible has other names for God. Frankly, I have never used this name. If I was speaking in Bahasa, I would most probably use Tuhan as I dont want to be associated with a religion which promotes practices which are in conflict to my faith.
You are only interested in talking about our Trinitarian Doctrine and come across as a person who knows more about this than 2000 years of leagues and generations of learned scholars. If you think you are smarter than billions of people who have lived and died over 2000 years, are you mistaken or are you correct? Think about the gravity of your claim. If you can find fault with this doctrine, dont you think others have too? Until they questioned and examined and finally saw the truth? But dont even bother ranting on this. We agree to disagree on this point. After all, one can only fill an empty glass.
SO, answer MY questions now. Or stop replying to my posts by insults.
Colin said :
I learnt from Muslim scholars that Mohamed used the name of God that the others were using at the time. Your question is, is there proof? Nope. None. Only the word of Anthropologists. Not enough for you? Just like I'm sure Jesus and Mohamed were really born. Physical proof? sorry, none.
Pak Yeh answers.
So it means you dont have proof.That means what you say that the Palestinian have used the word Allah 500 yeara before prophet Mohamad is a lie.
Brother Colin, You have insulted youself here by telling lies.
You Christians have insulted yourselves and God by telling lies about three gods,because there is no proof in the Bible as well as in the Quran that there is three gods.
I have not insulred Christians. Christians insulred themselves by telling lies.
The real issue here is you told lies by saying that Allah is your god when it is not, according to the Bible.That is the fist lie.
The second lie is you saya Allah is three when he us one.
The third lie is you say Allah has a son called Jesus. Allah hinself has proven that these are all lies.Please read Allahs book,the Quran.
Are you Christians trying to be the devil/Lucifer by telling these lies.???
Colin said :
2nd question. Why do I want to use the name Allah when the Bible has other names for God. Frankly, I have never used this name. If I was speaking in Bahasa, I would most probably use Tuhan as I dont want to be associated with a religion which promotes practices which are in conflict to my faith.
Pak Yeh reply.
You said it right.Using Allah by Christians contradicts their own faith.
Checkmate.!!!
All other questions are irrelevant for me to answer as the core issue has been answered by yourself.!!!
So the Muslim liars who told us Allah was the God of the Christians are not the guys who taught you? OK. Then why are they professors in the International Islamic University?
Using the arguement that absence of proof proves a lie, can you please provide physical proof that Mohamed is a man? Maybe he was a woman, or a monkey, or maybe there was no Mohd. If you cannot provide proof, are you a liar? Can you show me a bone? Or a grave, and a carbon dated analysis to prove it is his bones? And since he had so many wives, one of them aged nine, can you please point out to me his descendents? He must have had children right?
Are you a liar if you cannot provide proof?
OK, see? I too can insult. You're not the only one who can be stupid.
Now that you've won the arguement about the origins of the name Allah,and all the Muslim scholars are liars, lets talk about the decision of the High Court. What was wrong with it? Answer from the legal stand point. Not the Taliban view.
Thanks
Colin said :
So the Muslim liars who told us Allah was the God of the Christians are not the guys who taught you? OK. Then why are they professors in the International Islamic University?
Pak Yehs reply.
I dont know who this Muslim scholar is. What is his name.? Can you show me what he has written and what proof he has found.???
Colin said :
Using the arguement that absence of proof proves a lie, can you please provide physical proof that Mohamed is a man? Maybe he was a woman, or a monkey, or maybe there was no Mohd. If you cannot provide proof, are you a liar? Can you show me a bone? Or a grave, and a carbon dated analysis to prove it is his bones? And since he had so many wives, one of them aged nine, can you please point out to me his descendents? He must have had children right?
Are you a liar if you cannot provide proof?
Pak Yeh reply:
Ofcourse there are ample proofs of prophet Mohamads existence. Its written by many historians.
There are many Syeds who say they are the prophet Mohammads decendants.
Common, dont ask stupid questions.
Colin said :
Now that you've won the arguement about the origins of the name Allah,and all the Muslim scholars are liars, lets talk about the decision of the High Court. What was wrong with it? Answer from the legal stand point. Not the Taliban view.
Pak Yehs reply:
Sure I can but please copy me the Judges written judgments.???
Say Colin, dont be a sore looser ok. 99% of Christians do not use Allah as their god. This 1% Christians in Muslim lands definitely has got it wrong.
Islam is the True religion o Allah.
If you say your god is Allah,you must belief in His book the Quran.!
PEACE AND LOVE.
Wgy the need to debate whether Muhammad or jesus is real.??? The fact that their teachings
Colin said :
Using the arguement that absence of proof proves a lie, can you please provide physical proof that Mohamed is a man? Maybe he was a woman, or a monkey, or maybe there was no Mohd. If you cannot provide proof, are you a liar?
Pak Yehs reply.
Yes my dear Colin.You dont know that.???
By law and logic, anything that cannot be proven is a lie. Someone who cannot prove what he said is true ia a liar.
By science too, If a xcientist cannot prove what he said, the waht he said is a lie or a bullshit.
The son of god is a bullshit because it cannot be proven, and because Jesus died.Besides Allah himself said he does not have a son.
COPY THE JUDGEMENT FOR YOU TO READ HERE? Are you so lazy and ignorant that you created this entire blog and go on and on on this issue without even an inkling of knowledge of the case? My, I have wasted my time with an empty head. All this debating without a single ounce of substance from you and now I learn that you didnt even bother to read the newspaper articles to get the facts and points of law on the use of the name. Silly man. What a waste of time.
Dear Colin,,
Heh,heh, As usual, with bad loosers. The never admit they have lost,they use abusive language and get personal.
The judgement is not the real issue.
The real issue is the wrong translation of your Bible,when you changed the Bible name of god to the Quran name of god.
That has been debated and you lost.
Whatever i wish to debate next does not alter the fact that you have lost.
Anyway without looking at the judgement,ia have this to say.
I do not recognise the secular courts to judge on Islamic and Christian affairs.
That secular Bhudist Judge is not knolegeble about Christianity and Islam. How than can she judge the Christians and the Muslims.
Ok. I'll waste a little more time with you by asking 2 questions.
Question 1
IF I can produce an Aramaic bible online that mentions the name Allah 6 times on the first page, would you
1 Become a Christian?
2 Stop using the name Allah?
3 Admit that this conflict is unnecessary?
Question 2
Is Allah the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? I mean are there 2 Gods or One? Forget the Trinity for a minute and try to focus on these 2 questions? I'll educate you on the Trinitarian doctrine in a bit. OK? Be patient with that. Just answer these 2 questions.
Excuse me, pak yeh!
The word "Yarweh" is incorrect.
The correct spelling is "Yahweh" or simply "YHWH"
- Wiki
Colin said :
Question 1
IF I can produce an Aramaic bible online that mentions the name Allah 6 times on the first page, would you
1 Become a Christian?
2 Stop using the name Allah?
3 Admit that this conflict is unnecessary?
Pak Yehs reply.
Even the Pope at the Vatican cannot does not produce the Aramic Bible. All they have is the Latin Bible.
If you truely have the Aramic Bible produce it to the world and let the scientist carbon date it to verify that it is not a fraud. Producing in online can be a freaud. You have told lies to me so mny times already but no proof. Where is the proof that Palestinian Arabs have used Allah 500 years before Muhammad.???
Sorry I cannot belief you.
1).Become a Christian.
If I say I belief in the Aramic Bible Old Testament,it would make me a Unitarian Christian.A Unitarian Christian is Islam, the religion of one God of Jesus ,Abraham and Moses.
Christianity is not derived from the Bible Old Testament. Even the Gospel cannot prove the Trinity. The Trinity is a Greek mythology outside of the teachings of the Bible Old and New Testament.
Muslim do believe that the Bible Old Testament is also the word of God but the Gospel looks like biographers of Jesus and therefore not the word of God.\
So only if I belief in the Jesus mythology can I become a Christian.
Why should I belief in Jesus mythology.
2)Admit this unnessary.
If you realy speak the truth I definitely will follow you. But you have only told lies so far.
Colin said :
Question 2
Is Allah the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? I mean are there 2 Gods or One? Forget the Trinity for a minute and try to focus on these 2 questions? I'll educate you on the Trinitarian doctrine in a bit. OK? Be patient with that. Just answer these 2 questions.
Pak Yehs reply.
Yes Allah is the "One God" of Abraham,Isaac and Jecob but with a different name sauch as Yahweh,Yehovah,Ellah,Hindu Omm etc.Only prophet Mohammad called it Allah.
Enybody who is worshiping One God can call his god Allah, but the cannot abus the name Allah by saying that Allah is sharing his power with two other gods,which would destroy the meaning of Allah.
Unitarian Christians can call their god Allah because it dors not change the meaning of Allah,but Trinitarian Christians cannot use the word Allah because the change the meaning of Allah by making him a Trinity and saying taht Allah has a son.
Allah himself has said in the Quran that he is not a Trinity and does not have a son.
Now can you undestand the problem of blaspemy and lie towards Allah that you Christians had done to Allah Islam and the Muslims.
Please use the name of your god as stated in the Bible.That is the right Christianity. Christians using Allah is like changing the Bible for the Quran, ang changing the meaning of Allah in the Quran.
I see now that you will not continue to logically discuss the proposterous nature of your narrow, uninformed criticism until we get past the Trinitarian doctrine of the nature of God. Would you like to learn more about the source of the doctrine? Or will you continue to hide under this coconut shell of yours and shout out your ignorance?
Once I've educated you on the Trinity, we can continue to the core issue, which is the NAME of God and the use of that name.
Hi Pak,
I see you are still wrestling with others over the word Allah and the Trinity.
Well, it is ok to have healthy discussions on any issues as long as it is done in a nice civil manner.
On the Allah issue, we can obtain a lot of information by googling on it. "Aramaic Allah" will give us more than 100K hits. Of course, one has to consider what information to trust and accept.
Regarding the Trinity, I also have found it hard to understand the concept in my young days. The explanation of water being liquid,ice and steam helped a little but not much. It was only in later years after retirement and after a series of events that I finally accept the meaning of the Holy Trinity.
Pak, please continue your questioning and search for whatever truth there is and one day, Insyaallah (God willing), you will find it.
God bless. Adam.
Adam said :
Pak, please continue your questioning and search for whatever truth there is and one day, Insyaallah (God willing), you will find it.
Thanks Adam. But I have found the Truth in Gods word,the Bible Isaih 10,11,12"I am the only god.There is no god before me and no god after me.And there is no savior except me."
I hve also found it in gods words,the Quran Surah Al Ahad "Say Allah is the One.He is the eternally Besought of all.He does not give birth nor is born.And there is none comparable to him."
God throught "The Spirit of Truth" as predicted by Jesus spoke to me saying "Listen to all views.Choose the best. These are the guided,the intelligent."(Quran 39:18).
Dear Pak,
Sometimes, the "truth" is relative to time and circumstances. At times, the truth may be revealed in stages as planned by our creator.
Yes, our God is one but, just as Allah has 99 different names and attributes, our Almighty could also be in many different forms. He could appear in any form as He wishes; as Spirit, in visions or even in physical form if He so wishes. We should never limit the power of God.
It is good that you have referred to the Bible. Since you have quoted from Isaiah, please go to the preceding chapter/verse 9:6 which reads "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (NIV, UK).
Matthew 7:7 reads "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you". Pak may have been asking and seeking but have you knock on the Lord's door?
John 14:6 reads "Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No-one comes to the Father except through me." Yes, indeed Jesus is the Spirit of Truth.
Peace. Adam
Adam said :
Yes, our God is one but,
You said it.Isaiah said it. But your gospels contradicted it.
There is too many Gospels,too many authors.Original Gospels by deciples of Jesus is hidden or burned by Constantine and the Necean Creed.Sort of originals are in Latin a creation of Constantine. The Trinity is inserted into these Gospels to include mythology of Hercules son of god.
No original Aramic Gospels authored by deciples of Jesus means whatever you have is hearsay as none of the authors of the Gospel met Jesus as they only lived 300 years after Jesus died.
Then again since the Gospels contradict the Old Testament/word of god,it can only mean that the gospel is not the word of god.The Gospels are just a biography of Jesus and hearsay evidence that cannot be verified and used as evidence in any court of law.Unless there is prime evidence by deciples of Jesus,1st party witness,such as Banabas and his Gospel in Aramic, then and then only can Jesus message be termed valid evidence in a court of law.
Then again Banabas predicted another prophet naned Ahmmad.
and other gospels too pridicted another prophet translated as "the Comforter" refer John 14:16, John 16:7/8 and refer to my article "Prophet Mohammad predicted in the Bible."
I am sorry Adam. You have failed to proof that the Gospel is the uncorrupted word god and word of Jesus.!!!
"One god",single, cannot be "three gods"/plural.!!!
Gramatically and mathematically you Trinity Christians blaspeme the truth in grammar,mathematics and religion.!!!!!!!
You should not believe in falsehood/lies,
May the spirit of Truth guide you. Amen.
You see, this is the problem with you. You are block headed on this issue. You want to talk about the use of the name Allah. When we get into this you say you cant accept the Trinitarian doctrine. I want to agree to disagree on this and talk about the Name of Allah and its use by both Christians and Muslims, but you refuse, going on and on about your opinions and justifications built around your prejudice.
So I offer to educate you on the Trinitarian doctrine, but you ignore my offer and go on ranting and raving about how right you are and keep on citing a sliced and diced version of scripture.
Do you want to talk about the use of the name of God by all now?
Or do you want to learn about why we believe God is a Trinity? And then go on to talk about why God is One. And He is worshipped by all?
Pak,
The written word, no matter how recent, cannot be 100% accurate as can be seen by our present MS media; what more those recorded in centuries gone by and translated into so many languages. But manuscripts from ages past are very important links to our origins but we have to decipher and reconcile any discrepancies found.
Likewise, the Bible and Koran could never be 100% accurate down to the letter or word. I would go for the meaning and message being manifested in those words. We have to interpret and discern the many conflicting messages and decide for ourselves what to believe.
The Koran states that there is no compulsion in religion. This verse should be acceptable as no one can force another to believe or not to believe. The other conflicting Koran verse which calls for killing the unbelievers could not be accepted as coming from God. How could God allow killing unbelievers who are also potential Muslims? Even ex-Muslims could still go back to their faith if given the “right” guidance and not by intimidation which would only push them further away from the faith.
The Islamic authorities should realize that by prosecuting, persecuting and incarcerating apostates, they not only alienate them and create fear in the non-Muslims, they are also destroying the faith of many Muslims too. I believe you are one of the many Muslims who do not agree to the actions of the courts against Kamariah Ali, Revathi and the others. You would have used the soft approach of persuading them back to the faith and if they still do not respond, then let them go in peace. With this approach, Islam would be portrayed as a peaceful religion and there would still be a chance for the apostates to come back to the fold, don’t you think so?
Sorry, I have digressed. Coming back to the issue of the Trinity, the proclamation of Jesus in John 14 was and is indeed profound. He has declared that He is the way, the truth and the life; that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father; that the Father will send the Holy Spirit to be our counselor forever.
Either Jesus was delusional or He was telling the truth. Jesus was an extraordinary person as depicted in the Bible and also in the Koran as one of virgin birth who performed miracles healing the sick and afflicted, even raising the dead. The Koran also refers to Jesus as Word and Spirit of God.
Well, there are and will be much debate on this from both sides and it is up to the individual to ponder and search for the so called truth. At the end of the day Pak, it just boils down to whether we believe in this one simple and yet important message, that is, do we believe that God, in His loving mercy, has sent Jesus (as Son, Word, Spirit) to die for our sins, so that we can be forgiven and have eternal salvation, not by our works but by the Grace of God. And that He then sends His Holy Spirit to dwell in us as our counselor, helper, and comforter to strengthen our fortitude to resist the forces of darkness.
Peace be with you.
Adam.
Pak,
The written word, no matter how recent, cannot be 100% accurate as can be seen by our present MS media; what more those recorded in centuries gone by and translated into so many languages. But manuscripts from ages past are very important links to our origins but we have to decipher and reconcile any discrepancies found.
Likewise, the Bible and Koran could never be 100% accurate down to the letter or word. I would go for the meaning and message being manifested in those words. We have to interpret and discern the many conflicting messages and decide for ourselves what to believe.
The Koran states that there is no compulsion in religion. This verse should be acceptable as no one can force another to believe or not to believe. The other conflicting Koran verse which calls for killing the unbelievers could not be accepted as coming from God. How could God allow killing unbelievers who are also potential Muslims? Even ex-Muslims could still go back to their faith if given the “right” guidance and not by intimidation which would only push them further away from the faith.
The Islamic authorities should realize that by prosecuting, persecuting and incarcerating apostates, they not only alienate them and create fear in the non-Muslims, they are also destroying the faith of many Muslims too. I believe you are one of the many Muslims who do not agree to the actions of the courts against Kamariah Ali, Revathi and the others. You would have used the soft approach of persuading them back to the faith and if they still do not respond, then let them go in peace. With this approach, Islam would be portrayed as a peaceful religion and there would still be a chance for the apostates to come back to the fold, don’t you think so?
continue.....
Continue...
Sorry, I have digressed. Coming back to the issue of the Trinity, the proclamation of Jesus in John 14 was and is indeed profound. He has declared that He is the way, the truth and the life; that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father; that the Father will send the Holy Spirit to be our counselor forever.
Either Jesus was delusional or He was telling the truth. Jesus was an extraordinary person as depicted in the Bible and also in the Koran as one of virgin birth who performed miracles healing the sick and afflicted, even raising the dead. The Koran also refers to Jesus as Word and Spirit of God.
Well, there are and will be much debate on this from both sides and it is up to the individual to ponder and search for the so called truth. At the end of the day Pak, it just boils down to whether we believe in this one simple and yet important message, that is, do we believe that God, in His loving mercy, has sent Jesus (as Son, Word, Spirit) to die for our sins, so that we can be forgiven and have eternal salvation, not by our works but by the Grace of God. And that He then sends His Holy Spirit to dwell in us as our counselor, helper, and comforter to strengthen our fortitude to resist the forces of darkness.
Peace be with you.
Adam
Colin said,
Do you want to talk about the use of the name of God by all now?
Of course everybody can use rthe word Allah.!!!
But you cannot abuse and blaspheme/lie by saying it is a Trinity and has a son called Jesus and Hercules.!!!
Better still ..use the word Allah and use Allahs book, the Koran.!!!
Why be a hipocrit calling your god Allah but refuse to belief in his book, the Quran.???
Adam said :
Likewise, the Bible and Koran could never be 100% accurate down to the letter or word.
Pak Yehs reply ;
Yes I agree the Bibble can never be 100% accurate.The truth is the Bibble has been corrupted so much that the original Bibble in Aramic is hidden so that people cannot know of the corrupted text.
If you say otherwise, why are you not using the originals in Aramic.??? Why are they in Latin.???
Saying that the Quran cannot be 100% accurate is wrong. The Quran as Allah says is preserved 100% accurate in its original Arabic. Translations are not considered to be the Quran. That is how the Quran is preserved by written Arabic and anso by memory. many Muslims can recite the Quran by memory from Prophet Mohammads time till today.That is the secret how Gods words are preserved 100 % accurate.
Adam said :
The Koran states that there is no compulsion in religion. This verse should be acceptable as no one can force another to believe or not to believe. The other conflicting Koran verse which calls for killing the unbelievers could not be accepted as coming from God. How could God allow killing unbelievers who are also potential Muslims? Even ex-Muslims could still go back to their faith if given the “right” guidance and not by intimidation which would only push them further away from the faith.
Pak Yehs reply
Yes there is no compulsion in religion.
Muslims can leave their religion is they so wish.That is the Qurans law. Unfortunately political Muslims have used the Hadis to justify the killing of apostate Muslims.This is not Islam. Allah says Quran 2:252"There is no compulsion in religion". And Allah did not contradict it anywhere in the Quran.
The verse taht says you are allowed to kill the unbelievers are only against those unbelievers who wage a war against Muslim.
The Bibble old Testament also says the same thing. Are you going to say that the Bible verse that allows killing unbelievers in war is not from God.???
Colin said :
Coming back to the issue of the Trinity, the proclamation of Jesus in John 14 was and is indeed profound. He has declared that He is the way, the truth and the life; that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father; that the Father will send the Holy Spirit to be our counselor forever.
Either Jesus was delusional or He was telling the truth.
Pak Yehs reply :
You have not shown me the verse no, as such it is just you saying it,not Jesus.
Note that there is anothe verse whereby Jesus said he is not god...."Why say you I am good. Only God is good."
Many other verses say that Jesus prayed to God.
Why then should Christians pray to Jesus and the holy spirit.???
Its Lucifer "The First Liar" who corrupted the "One God" of Jesus,Abraham and Muhammad.
Use your brains Adam.!!!
One God is singular. Three Gods is plural.A plural god is not a singular god.!!!
Three cannot be One. It is mathematically impossible.!!!
Hi Pak,
I hope you have received my 2 responses from a week ago. If you have and have no time to respond, it is ok. If not, I could re-post them again,
Take care. Adam.
Hi Adam,
All comments by you have been posted.
If it does not appear here, it probably got lost in the post.
Please post again.
I gladly welcome your comments.
Peace.! God bless.!
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