Wednesday, September 12, 2012

The Ban / Burn of the Hadis

The voice of the Beloved (Allah) is the only voice heard by the Lover ...A Sufi Guide/Guideline.

God's Law is made up of God's words(Quran). Mans Law is made up of  man;s words (Hadis). Mix them up and you get Gomen's (government's) Law....Madah Pak Yeh.

This is a continuation of the debate @http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2012/08/lets-debate-on-karpals-criminal-law.html 

1) Did the ban and burning of the hadis really happened.???
Proof that it happened is ample in books wriiteh by historians and hadis co,pilers.
The following blog gives ample evidence that the hadis was banned an refuts pro Hadis Ulamas.
http://besthadithquranalone.blogspot.com/2011/07/masha-allah-arabic-word-hadith-and.html
http://besthadithquranalone.blogspot.com/2011_07_01_archive.html

We have from their very OWN HADITH that their prominent figures banned Hadith such as:

1) the Prophet Muhammadbanned the hadis.
 a)Zaid  Ibni Thabit and several other Sahabahs said that the prophet prohibited the writing of the hadis.
b)Quran31:6 "Some people use lahwal hadis to mislead others from Allah's path (Islam),without knowledge, and make a mockery of it (Allah's path)".This verve prohibits the use of lahwal hadis  or misleading hadis, its meaning extracted from the verse itself .

2) Zayd Ibn Thabit (The Prophet's closest revelation writer) banned the hadis.
 Zayd said:The Apostle of Allah ordered us not to write any of his traditions. So he erased it. [Sunan of Abu-Dawood Book 25, Number 3640:] Several other narators of hadis also said that the prophet prohibited Muslims from writing the hadis.

3) Abu Bakar the 1st Kalifah burnt the hadis.
 We also have later historical sources from their OWN ahadith which say that the Caliph Abu Bakr burnt his notes of hadith (said to be 500 in all) for fear that they might be false,
4) Umar ibn al-Khattab the2nd Kalifah banned the hadis.
 The earlier story related by Abd al-Razzaq is somewhat longer than the later story, containing a broad variety of orders. It is a list of commands and prohibitions that includes the command to
“bare the Qur’an and spare the narration from God’s Messenger.”
5) Ali Ibn Abu Talib the 4th Kalaifah banned the hadis. 
In one of his speeches he said,
"I urge all those who have writing taken from the messenger of God to go home and erase it. The people before you were annihilated because they followed theHadiths of their scholars and left the book of their Lord." (Sunan Al-Daramy)
 #  Pak Yeh's comment :
Historical evidence shows that the hadis was banned. Period.!!!
Muslims had observed the ban for 300 years.!!!
After 300 years, Bukhari ,Muslim and others without the prophets's and the Kalifahs' permission,  unbanned the hadis, thus causing lahwal hadis (Buhkari Muslim's hadis) to be mixed with ahsanal hadis (Quran) in the hukum/Law of Allah.

But Allah had warned us against mixing other hadis with the Quran as per the 3 verses below..!!!

"Take not other than Me, as disposer of affairs". (Quran 17:2)

"Surely the ‘HUKM’ (Law and Rule) is for none but Allah." (Quran 12:40)

"He does not make any one His associate in His ‘HUKM’ (Laws and Ruling)." (Quran 18:26)
 (Pak Yeh's comment: Allah does not make the prophet Mohammad or the narators of the hadis as associate in His HUKM/Law. What Hadis Muslims are doing is contradicting Allah by associating the prophet's alledged hadis in Allah's HUKM/Law and making a rojak of Allahs HUKM/Law).

Question : Why was the hadis banned.?
Answer : 1)_ Because it misleads people and make a mockery of Islam. Refer Quran 31:6 "Some people use lahwal hadis to mislead others from Allahs path,without knowledge,and make a mockery of it (Isla m)"
Proof of hadis misleading and making a mockery of Islam is as follows..
a) The hadis of Omar saying that the prophet kissed the hajar aswat/black stone. Historians say this is a pagan tradition of kissing the vagina of the Godess of Procreation. This hadis mocks Islam and Muslim by associating them with pagan idolatry.
b) The Israk Mikraj hadis paints Allah as a flip flop planner of solat who over planned 50 solats aday and had to reduce it to 5 solats a day after the prophet Mohamad flew on a flying horse to meet God at the 7th heaven where Zeus the father of Hercules of Greek mythology lives. This hadis besides saying Allah is stupid is also saying islam is a Greek mythology.
c) The hadis from monkeys who stoned to death their married adulterers were also used to be included in Allahs hudud Law. punishment. The Hudud Law was mixed up with not just man's law (hadis) but also monckey's law. Bukhari Muslim must have learned monkey language from Tarzan and the Apes.
Refer  Sahîh al-Bukhârî Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:
Narrated ‘Amru bin Maimun: "During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them."

Answer : 2) The Hadis when used has the tendency to eclipse the Quran.
Proof of it is as per 
a) Qur’aan 25:30 "The Messenger said, “My Lord, my people have deserted this Qur’aan."
 b) Quran 16:63-64 “By God, we have sent (messengers) to communities before you, but the devil adorned their works in their eyes. Consequently, he is now their lord, and they have incurred a painful retribution. We have revealed this scripture to you, to point out for them what they dispute… (16:63-64)”.
 (Pak Yeh' comment : 
1)The 2nd Hadis (Rabbi's words) of  the Jews turned Judaism into a facist/racist religion.                    
2) The 2nd Hadis/Gospels (priest's words) of the Chrostians turned one God into a trinity of gods.          
3) The 2nd Hadis (Ullanas words) of the Muslims would do the same as Jews and Christians ie mislead them as stated in the verse Quran 16:63-64. and Quran 31:6"Some people use lahwal hadis to mislead others from Allah's path,without knowledge and make a mockery of it(Allahs path/Islam".)

I welcome anybody that disagree with these facts to counter deabte it out as advised by the Quran 39:18 "Listen to all views.Choose the best. These are the guided and the intelligent."
A dogmatic belief that dead Ulamas (Bukhari Muslim etc) do not make mistakes, is idol worshiping them,as gods besides Allah. Do not associate Ulamas words with Allah's words othrwise you would be like the Christians and Jews. Refer Quran9:31
"They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks(and Ulamas) and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no god save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!"

May Allah guide us to the truth.!

39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Surah 2:8 Some people say" We believe in God and the Day of Judgement" but they are not true believers.

Surah 2:9 They deceive God and the believers.However ,they deceived no one but themselves,a fact of which they are not aware.

Surah 2:10 A sickness exists in their hearts to which God adds more sickness.Besides this,they will suffer a painful punishment as a result of the lie which they speak.

Pak Yeh.Look like this ayat was refering to someone like you.

Anonymous said...

What happens to the last article? Why did you take it off? Did somebody forced you to take it down?

pak yeh said...

Salam Anonymous no 1,
Apa daa ??? Your opinion is without any debate and Quranic proofs is very unintelligent / chekai lah.
I am a believer in the Quran, therefore I am a Muslim.
Belief in the hadis is something that Allah, the prophet Mohamad saw, his Sahabahs and Kalifahs prohibited. Oh yeah ! your God is not Allah but Bukhari Muslim, Heh,heh,heh.


Salam Anonymous no 2,
The last article had a technical glitch.

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh.
If you dont believe or follow whai is in Hadith,then how do you pray,fasting in Ramadhan,pay zakat or performing Haj.

BTW look at your penis,why did your father cut the upper part or the Malay call it sunat(sunnah)

pak yeh said...

Anonymous said:
Pak Yeh.
If you dont believe or follow whai is in Hadith,then how do you pray,fasting in Ramadhan,pay zakat or performing Haj.

Pak Yehs reply:
Have you heard of practical/tradition/culture, like how the joget is learned.

Anonymous said:
BTW look at your penis,why did your father cut the upper part or the Malay call it sunat(sunnah)

Pak Yehs reply :
Yeah my father not Bukhari Muslim, okay. My father never refer to any hadis. It was a custom. Anyway since the Quran did not mention it, it is not wajib but sunnat to circumcise.
You are still a Muslim even if you do not circumcise.
Common Anonymous, if you cannot debate what I have written, the the ban on hadis by Allah and the prophetis true.

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh.
What do you mean pratical/tradition/culture.like joget or kuda kepang dance .it was started by an Indonesian barber Wak wiranto who migrated to Pekan Pahang.

In Islam,praying,perfoming Haj and other religious duties,it was started/ pratice by Rasuallah saw and all his componions just follow what he did.This was written for the benefit of newly converted muslim in other part of Arab panisular.Bukhary just collecting this pratice/tradition and compile it in the book of Hadith.

Btw tell me why did you wash your asshole and not used toilet paper like what the chinese did.You follow the pratice/tradition of Prophet Muhamnad saw.This is recorded in Hadith.

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh.
The componions of Propher Muhammad saw observe wat he did in perfoming the religious duties and obligation.They tell their family,friends nd other fellows muslim.This was recorded in their mind and they pratice it every day.

What is that to banned.You cant erase it fom their pratice.This pratice is being follow by other muslim,generation after generation.
Bukhary ,Muslim,Abu Daud,Termizi just collect and record this pratice/tradition for the benefit of other muslim.
You cant stop if people want to write something..just like Estine teaching his student on theory of gravity and he write it in a book for the benefit of future generation.Wat wrong iwith that pratice.

pak yeh said...

Anonymous said:
In Islam,praying,perfoming Haj and other religious duties,it was started/ pratice by Rasuallah saw and all his componions just follow what he did.

Pak Yehs reply:
So you confirm that the tradition was practiced and does not have to be written.

Anonymous said:
This was written for the benefit of newly converted muslim in other part of Arab panisular.Bukhary just collecting this pratice/tradition and compile it in the book of Hadith.

Pak Yehs reply:
Allwritten hadis were banned/burned by the prophet and thew Kalifahs, So wrtten hadis did not appear untill 300 years later. Muslim can live with the ban on written hadis for 300 years, why cant you.!!!
The real reason for banning the hadis is because of Quran

#1) "He does not make any one His associate in His ‘HUKM’ (Laws and Ruling)." (Quran 18:26)
(Pak Yeh's comment: Allah does not make the prophet Mohammad or the narators of the hadis as associate in His HUKM/Law. What Hadis Muslims are doing is contradicting Allah by associating the prophet's alledged hadis in Allah's HUKM/Law and making a rojak of Allahs HUKM/Law).
#2)"Somepeople use lahwal hadis to mislead others from Allah's path,without knowledge,and make a mockery of it(Allah's path/Islam)

pak yeh said...

Oh There is 1 more reason why the hadis was banned.
#3) Allah says in the Quran that He revealed the Quran as a complete book. So Allah does not need another book (Hadis)to complement it making the Quran look incomplete.
The times of solat, the wuduk/abulution,facing the Qaabah,tone of voice, dress code is stated in the Quran. Its more complete than the hadis of Bukhari Muslim. I think the hadis of Bukhari Muslim made a boo boo of the tone of solat.!!!
You see written hadis does not necessary give the true sunnah, ,in fact, it can be proven that the hadis contradicts "the sunnah according to the Quran", making a mockery of Islam(refer Quran 31:6).

Go read the Quran in a language you understand and find out the reference to the times of the prayer and the tone of prayer.
If you cannot,then another article will adress it.

Mat keluang said...

Pak Yeh

You mention about pratical / tradition. On how you pray and perform other religious duties.This is in Hadith.Hadith mean the statement of Prophet Muhammad Saw,his saying,his pratice,his tradition,his deeds and his approval.

Even if what you said is true,there is no evidence that the Prophet forbid his followers to follow his pratice .In fact during his Khutbah widak In Arafah when he perform the Haj he asked the muslim to follow Quran and his sunnah.

Mat keluang said...

Pak Yeh.
In quran it mention only you pray at noon,evening,night and morning.But what time did you pray at noon. Or night.

When you pray,it does not mention in Quran,what to recite.It does not mention how do you rukok or sujud.You have to look how Propher pray and waht he read in salah.This is in Hadith.
You make love with your wife and you have to clean yourself.How do you do it.It does not mention in Quran.You have o look at hadith.

You perform Haj.This was mention in Quran but how do you do it.You have to follow how the prophet perform.This is Hadith.

pak yeh said...

Mat Kluang said:
You mention about pratical / tradition. On how you pray and perform other religious duties.This is in Hadith.Hadith mean the statement of Prophet Muhammad Saw,his saying,his pratice,his tradition,his deeds and his approval.

Pak Yehs reply:
Yeah ! But the hadis was not written until 300 years after the prophets death. Muslims were doing their ibadah by practical example,ie following the prophet,Kalifah,Lmams. So there was no need for a hadis.

Mat Kluang said:
Even if what you said is true,there is no evidence that the Prophet forbid his followers to follow his pratice .In fact during his Khutbah widak In Arafah when he perform the Haj he asked the muslim to follow Quran and his sunnah.

Pak Yehs reply :
I have given many proofs of the baning of hadis in my article. Have you not read it.
The sunnah does not mean written hadis. It means the prophets practice/tgradition, and this is mentioned in the Quran and was taught by tradition/practical example.

Mat Kluang said:
In quran it mention only you pray at noon,evening,night and morning.But what time did you pray at noon. Or night.

Pak Yehs reply :
The Quran states the time of prayers by the position of the sun. The watch was not invented yet.

Mat Kluang said:
When you pray,it does not mention in Quran,what to recite.It does not mention how do you rukok or sujud.You have to look how Propher pray and waht he read in salah.This is in Hadith.

Pak Yehs reply:
The detail were taught by practical example or traditions. There was no hadis used. People lean better by example from father to son,from Imam to makmum.

Mat Kluang said:
You make love with your wife and you have to clean yourself.How do you do it.It does not mention in Quran.You have o look at hadith.

Pak Yehs reply:
This is mentioned in the Quran. And it is taught by tradition.You have been reading too much hadis and have fogoten the Quran.

“You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord’s scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it. (Quran 18:27).”

Mat keluang said...

Pak Yeh.

Ha ha ha now It clear you belive in Hadith but you are against the writting of hadith by Bukhary or Muslim.

What wrong with that,for the benefit of the Muslim Ummah who cannot memorose the Hadith or who dont speak arabic.All the Muslim scholars agree this is good for the Muslim.
I think you are the only muslim in the world who are against the writting of Hadith.Looking at your backround as an engineer,I dont give much weight what you are writting.A wasting of time.
I suggest you ,for our benefit you enrole into Islamic University to learn more about Islam.

You dont write something that you dont have knowledge.Islam knowlegde is not copy and paste.

Salam.I rest my case.

Berhujah said...

Salam pakyeh

Sy lihat hanya pakyeh sahaja yg bawa hujah2 dari ayat2 Quran tetapi lawan2 pakyeh semua hanya berceloteh diatas angin tanpa apa2 hujah dari Quran, kalau macam tuh budak tadika pun boleh..hahahaha, tak gitu pakyeh??

pak yeh said...

Mat Kluang said:
Ha ha ha now It clear you belive in Hadith but you are against the writting of hadith by Bukhary or Muslim.

Pak Yehs reply:
That is not true. Hadis was compiled by hearsay, 300 years after the prophet died. Most people cannot even remember what they said 3 days ago. How can they remember what the prophet said after 300 years???. Besides none of the narators met the prophet Mohamad so how can they determine what was narated by their friends as the words of the prophet.???

Mat Kelawar said:
What wrong with that,for the benefit of the Muslim Ummah who cannot memorose the Hadith or who dont speak arabic.All the Muslim scholars agree this is good for the Muslim.

Pak Yehs reply :
Whats wrong, had been explained in my article
1)It misleads an make a mockery of Islam.Quran 31:6
2) It is used to associate with the hukum/law of Allah and hence contradict #1 Quran 18:26 "He does not make any one His associate in His ‘HUKM’ (Laws and Ruling)."
(Pak Yeh's comment: Allah does not make the prophet Mohammad or the narators of the hadis as associate in His HUKM/Law. What Hadis Muslims are doing is contradicting Allah by associating the prophet's alledged hadis in Allah's HUKM/Law and making a rojak of Allahs HUKM/Law).
#2)Quran 18:27 "...and you shall not find any other source beside it(Quran)".

Mar Kluang said:
I think you are the only muslim in the world who are against the writting of Hadith.Looking at your backround as an engineer,I dont give much weight what you are writting.A wasting of time.
I suggest you ,for our benefit you enrole into Islamic University to learn more about Islam.
You dont write something that you dont have knowledge.Islam knowlegde is not copy and paste.

Pak Yehs reply:
That is what people who reject Quranic proof say.Someone who disbelieve in Quranic proof is definitely not a Muslim..

pak yeh said...

Berhujah said...
Salam pakyeh
Sy lihat hanya pakyeh sahaja yg bawa hujah2 dari ayat2 Quran tetapi lawan2 pakyeh semua hanya berceloteh diatas angin tanpa apa2 hujah dari Quran, kalau macam tuh budak tadika pun boleh..hahahaha, tak gitu pakyeh??

Pak Yeh jawab:
Kah,kah,kah. Betoi, betoi.
Semua pro hadis sudah kantoi, tidak mampu bahas.
Itu kerana mereka beriman kapada hearsay haids/lahwal hadis yang di larang kegunaannya oleh Allah.
Bukan sahaja mereka guna hearsay hadis tapi hadis monyet pun mereka percaya. Ha,ha,ha,ha. Kantoi,kantoi.

pak yeh said...

Those who do not debate the issue but post only their personal opinions, are actually posting rubbish and deserve to be deleted. Two postings have been deleted because of its moaning and groaning opinions, with zero debating of the issue.
This blog is for intellectual debaters as per Quran 39:18 "Listen to all views. Choose the best. They are the guided,the intelligent."
To be intelligent in a debate you must give Quranic proofs or historical proofs that the hadis was not banned during the prophets time and 300 years following his death.

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh.
Saya cuba mencari bahan tulisan berhubong dengan Penulisan hadith.
Diriwayatkan Abu Hurairah berkata "Tidak saorang pun dari sahabat Nabi yang lebeh banyak meriwayatkan haridh dari ku kechuali Abdullah b Amr.Dahulunya ia menulis sedangkan aku tidak.

Abdullah Amr berkata "Saya telah menulis Segala yang aku dengar dari Rasuallah untok Aku hafalkan.Maka orang 2 Quraish melarang aku.Maka aku berhenti menulisnya dan mengadu kapada Rasuallah.Rasuallah berkata "Tulis lah.Demi zat yang jiwa aku ditangan Nya,tidak keluar. Darinya kechuali yang hak"

Ibnu Qutaibah dalam kitabnya Ta'wil Mukhttalaf al Hadith berkata,Kontradisi ini ada dua kemungkinan.
1-Rasuallah saw melarang penulisan Hadith tetapi satelah beliu melihat bahawa sunnah semakin banyak dan hafalan lambat laun akan hilang maka beliu membenarkann sunnah di tulis dan di documtasikan.
2.Kebolehan menulis sunnah itu di khususkan bagi beberapa orang sahabat saperti Abdullah Amr kerana ia dapat membaca dan menulis bahasa Siryani dan Arab. Sedang kan sahabat lain ummi,tidak dapat membaca dan menulis..

Mengikut Al Khaththabi dalam kitab nya Maalim al sunnan "Kemungkinan besar larangan penulisan itu datang lebih awal dan kemudiannya dibenarkan.

Mengikut Al Ramahurmuzi berkata larangan penulisan Hadith relevan pada awal tahun Hijrah ketika ada kekhawatiran bahawa umat Islam akan berpaling dari Al Quran apabila mereka menggeluti penulisan hadith.

Al Mundziri,Ibnul Qayyim dan Ibn Hajr berkata izin penulisan datang satelah larangan kerana Rasuallah saw pernah membenarkan dituliskan khutbahnyanuntok Abu Syah kerana Abu Syah pernah meminta Khoutbahnya.
Pada masa Rasuallah wafat terdapat sajumlah tulisan Hadith di namakan Ash Shadiqah,dan sekianya larangan itu datang satelah izin penulisan diberi,maka niscaya ia akan memusnahkan seluroh penulisannya.

Anonymous said...

Sambong.
Diantara tulisan Hadith pada waktu itu ialah.
1Al Shahifah al Shadigah di tulis oleh Abdullah bin Amr.

2-Shahifah Ali Abi Talib .

3-Shahifah Saad bin Ubadah. Saorang sahabat Rasuallah.

4-surat surat Rasuallah yang di tulis kapada gabenor nya yang menghuraikan hukum hukum ugama,Ia menghuraikan hukum dan akidah yang penting.
Diantaranya termasok kitab zakat dan niat yang dikirimkan kapada Abu bakar al Siddiq.

Surat kapada Amr Hazam Gabenor Yaman yang menghuraikan prinsip Islam,masaalah ibadah, zakat dan diat.

Surat kapada Wail b Hujut untok kaumnya di Hadramaut yang menghuraikan perinsip halal dan haram dalam ugama Islam.

Piagam perjanjian Hudaibiah,Perjanjian Tabuk, dan Piagam Madinah.

Imam Malik dalam kitabnya al Muttawa telah pun mengumpul dan menulis Hadith Rasuallah di Madinah.In di buat sabelum Bukhari dan Muslim mengompokkan hadith hadith Rasuallah.

Imam Bukhari mengompokkan hadith Rasuallah satelah di perentahkan oleh Khalifah Omar Abdul Aziz.Jika larangan itu berkuatkuasa sudah tentu Khalifah Omar tidak akan berani melanggarnya.

Hanya terdapat pada abad 20,tokoh orientalis saperti Goldziher yang mempertikaikan penulisan Hadith.Tidak ada tokoh ulama Islam sahingga hari ini mempertikaikan penulisan Hadith kechuali orang Islam yang jahil dalam ugama Islam saperti Pak Yeh.

pak yeh said...

Salam Anonymous
1)Hujah anda tidak berasas,kerana tidak ada hadis di tulis di masa nabi maseh hidup, dan tidak ada hadis di tulis selama 300 tahun selepas nabi wafat. Hadis muncul 300 tahun, dan di kutib cara "hearsay"/khabar angin dari orang2 yang tidak pernah jumpa para Kalifah dan nabi.Selepas 300 tahun, nabi sendiripun tidak ingat apa yang beliau kata. Sesiapa yang ingat kata2 nabi selepas 300 tahu, adalah tidak waeas dan penipu belaka.

2) Hadis yang berkata bahawa Rasullullah benarkan hadisnya di tulis adalah hadis palsu, kerana tidak di bela dengan sejarah.!!! Waima sejarah bela hadis yang bann/haramkan hadis nabi.

3) Hujah anda yang berasaskah hadis tidak lagi boleh di gunakan kerana ia kontradik hadis yang haramkan hadis. Keadaan begini melemahkan hadis itu sendiri sebagai infomasi yang saheh.

4) Quran menhalang kegunaan hadis (Quran 31:6), dan kegunaan hadis di dalam hukum Allah.Lihat hujah saya pada rencana saya. Saya CnP sekali lagi di bawah.
Hadis cannot be used because,
1)It misleads an make a mockery of Islam.Quran 31:6
2) It is used to associate with the hukum/law of Allah and hence contradict #1 Quran 18:26 "He does not make any one His associate in His ‘HUKM’ (Laws and Ruling)."
(Pak Yeh's comment: Allah does not make the prophet Mohammad or the narators of the hadis as associate in His HUKM/Law. What Hadis Muslims are doing is contradicting Allah by associating the prophet's alledged hadis in Allah's HUKM/Law and making a rojak of Allahs HUKM/Law).
#2)Quran 18:27 "...and you shall not find any other source beside it(Quran)".1)It misleads an make a mockery of Islam.Quran 31:6
2) It is used to associate with the hukum/law of Allah and hence contradict #1 Quran 18:26 "He does not make any one His associate in His ‘HUKM’ (Laws and Ruling)."
(Pak Yeh's comment: Allah does not make the prophet Mohammad or the narators of the hadis as associate in His HUKM/Law. What Hadis Muslims are doing is contradicting Allah by associating the prophet's alledged hadis in Allah's HUKM/Law and making a rojak of Allahs HUKM/Law).
#2)Quran 18:27 "...and you shall not find any other source beside it(Quran)".

Jika nak lawan hujah saya, kenalah bawa bukti2 dari Quran. Ini kerana hadis telah bann/haramkan/matikan hadis.
Saya tidak akan layan hujah berbuktikan hadis, kerana ia nya menyesatkan(Quran31:6).

pak yeh said...

Sambong.
Sekali lagi hujah pro hadis mengkontradik hadis anti hadis telah matikan issue hadis sebagai infomasi yang tidak mutlak. Jadi kita perlu guna ayat2 Quran sebagai bukti multak bahawa hadis2 Bukahri/Muslim yang sukar di bukti authority dari Rasullulah dan 4 kalifah, di sokong oleh Allah dengan bukti2 ayat2 dari Quran.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
pak yeh said...

Anonymouse
Tue Sep 18, 10:31:00 PM GMT+08:00

Komen anda di delete kerana 1) Tidak membahaskan hadis2 dan ayat Quran yang saya hujahkan.
2)bersikap biadap.

Anonymous said...

Pak yeh.
The tuth always hurt.You have no capacity to debate on Hadith because you are modern Paste and copy Ulama.

The surah you quote was wrongly tafsir and you blame Bukhary for writting the hadith,whereas Hadith as written since Prophet time and Bukhary only doing the collection.

Only orientalist like Ignas Goldziher ,hundreds year ago wrote the book questioning the written of Hadith and Michel Cook wrote a book on Early opponents to the writtingnof Traditions- Hadith.Why Orientalist started questining the written of Hadith whereas to the Muslim this is no longer as issue.

Pak yeh you want to question this issue without having full knowledge on the subject you want to discuss.

You make a mockrey of yourself.

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh.
Jika awak buku tulisan Micheal cook "Early opponents to the writting oftradition-Hadith" Perchangaan pendapat diantara para sahabat Rasuallah berhubongan kebenaran penulisan Hadith berlaku di awal kurun pertama dan kedua( 100 to 200 H) tapi akhirnya pendapat majority para sahabat membuat keputusan penulisan ini dibenarkan.

Oleh itu pada zaman Khalifah Umar abd Aziz pada tahun 300H ia telah memerentahkan hadith ini di kumpul dan dituliskan oleh Bukhari ,Muslim,Termizi .

Sekarang sudah abad ke 20 puloh masaalah penulisan hadith sudah selesai dan tida lagi menjadi issue.Kenapa Pak Yeh maseh cuba menimbulkan perkara yang sudah di terima oleh ulama ulama dan umat Islam.

Jika dibaca buku Michel Cook ia hanya membahas kan perbezaan pendapat mengenai penulisan Hadith.Tidak saorang pun dari para sahabat Rasuallha dan anak muridnya mempertikaikan kesahihan hadith hadith Rasuallah.Mereka percaya hadith yang diriwayatkan oleh Abu Hurairah,Aishah,Ali ,Abdullah Amr dan lain para sahabat itu benar di nyatakan oleh Rasuallah.

Berbeza dengan Pak Yeh,Awak bukan sahaja mempertikaikan penulisan Hadith(yang sudah tidak lagi menjadi issue sekarang ini) tapi awak juga mempertikaikan hadith hadith sahih yang dikompolkan oleh Bukhari dan Muslim.Hadith sahih bermaana sanadnya terus sampai ka Rasuallah.

Sebab itu saya berkata jika awak tidak mahu menerima hadith ini,awak perlu kemukakan bukti yang methdology yang di gunakan oleh Bukhari ada cacatnya.
Suda hampir 1100 tahun Bukhari siap mengumpolkan hadithnya,tidak ada saorang Islam pun,termasok orientalis barat dapat mencabar kerja Bukhari mengumpolkan Hadith kechuali Pak Yeh yang cuba hendak berdebat dan menimbukkan issue tapi Pah Yeh yangbtidak mempunyai latar belakang ugama yang kukoh ,hanya menjadi bahan gelak ketawa orang.

Good try tapi kerja orang jahil ugama.

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh.
Be careful.You are not only try to dispute on the writting of Hadith which was settle long ago but you also dispute the hadith Sahih which was collected by Bukhari or Muslim.

The prophet componions have different opinion on the writting of Hadith but they never dispute on the authentic Hadith narrated by Prophet componions .And they never dispute on Isra Miraj hadith.,eventhough you try to argue it doesnt make sense.

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Thu Sep 20, 11:43:00 AM GMT+08:00
Stop bullshitting using false hadis. You still cannot disprove of the hadis that banned the hadis.
Please start debating. the Quran proofs as per my posting
#Whats wrong, had been explained in my article
1)It misleads an make a mockery of Islam.Quran 31:6
2) It is used to associate with the hukum/law of Allah and hence contradict #1 Quran 18:26 "He does not make any one His associate in His ‘HUKM’ (Laws and Ruling)."
(Pak Yeh's comment: Allah does not make the prophet Mohammad or the narators of the hadis as associate in His HUKM/Law. What Hadis Muslims are doing is contradicting Allah by associating the prophet's alledged hadis in Allah's HUKM/Law and making a rojak of Allahs HUKM/Law).
#2)Quran 18:27 "...and you shall not find any other source beside it(Quran)".

pak yeh said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
pak yeh said...

Anonymous Thu Sep 20, 11:43:00 AM GMT+08:00

Awak macam pembahas tadika sahaja.
Menguna hadis untok bela hadis telah musnah kerana hadis kontradik sama sendiri (contoh hadis pengharaman hadis oleh Rasullah dan para sahabat.
Kamu maseh belum bahas larangan menguna hadis yang di sebut Quran...seperti pasting saya...
##Whats wrong, had been explained in my article
1)It misleads an make a mockery of Islam.Quran 31:6
2) It is used to associate with the hukum/law of Allah and hence contradict #1 Quran 18:26 "He does not make any one His associate in His ‘HUKM’ (Laws and Ruling)."
(Pak Yeh's comment: Allah does not make the prophet Mohammad or the narators of the hadis as associate in His HUKM/Law. What Hadis Muslims are doing is contradicting Allah by associating the prophet's alledged hadis in Allah's HUKM/Law and making a rojak of Allahs HUKM/Law).
#2)Quran 18:27 "...and you shall not find any other source beside it(Quran)".

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Thu Sep 20, 11:50:00 AM GMT+08:00

You are like a kindegarten debater. Using the hadis to support the use of hadis is unacceptable because the canell each other by contradictions.
So your other way is to debate what I have asked for.
#1)It misleads an make a mockery of Islam.Quran 31:6
2) It is used to associate with the hukum/law of Allah and hence contradict #1 Quran 18:26 "He does not make any one His associate in His ‘HUKM’ (Laws and Ruling)."
(Pak Yeh's comment: Allah does not make the prophet Mohammad or the narators of the hadis as associate in His HUKM/Law. What Hadis Muslims are doing is contradicting Allah by associating the prophet's alledged hadis in Allah's HUKM/Law and making a rojak of Allahs HUKM/Law).
#2)Quran 18:27 "...and you shall not find any other source beside it(Quran)".

Berhujah said...

Pakyeh tak pegi demo dengan pemuda PAS kerana filem lahwal hadis(klik disini) yang mentertawakan??

Kah,kah,kah,kah...

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
pak yeh said...

Anonymous Mon Sep 24, 07:51:00 PM GMT+08:00
Your comment was deleted because you called the Muslims who demonstrated hypocrites. We dont want another demonstration for that do we.?
I believe, it is the Muslims human right to demonstrate and take action (legal or otherwise)on the owners of the movie Innocence of Muslims, because it libels/lies/blasphemes Allah, the prophet Mohamad and Muslims.

Annakholat Atastokhdevishizar said...

Pak Yeh,

i understand your plight as i received the very same treatment from these people. they stick to the hadis bukhari muslim and whatnot like hungry leeches. they've abandoned Quran. it makes me wonder, is Quran their ultimate guide from Allah?

sometimes, its futile to argue with them. they said you are a copy paste ulama. but look who's typing. isn't he/ she also a copy paste ulama? it is known that when it comes to Islamic studies, everything is spoonfed; no questions asked or you will be considered as deviant. so they only regurtitate whatever their teachers taught.

they certainly have fulfilled what quran said:

2:78-79- And among them are unlettered ones who do not know the Scripture except in wishful thinking, but they are only assuming. So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

2:170-171- And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided? The example of those who disbelieve is like that of one who shouts at what hears nothing but calls and cries cattle or sheep - deaf, dumb and blind, so they do not understand.

There are 2 or 3 sahih Bukhari about rajm for adultery and one of it came from observing monkey practice. thus they fitted this:

5:60- Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."

muslims love to recite Yasin but they failed to take note of ayat 7-10. so pak yeh it doesnt matter whatever concrete proof you bring, they would still ignore as also said in 31:7

Quran has bring us clear communications (in language we can understand of course) as said in 54:17, 22, 32, 40.

now i am not totally against hadith. but hadith cannot be the basis of law over people. Quran 6:19 said so.

can you take good lessons from fairy tales when formulating civil laws e.g. evil stepmothers must be punished by dancing wearing heated iron shoes as told in the original snow white? isn't that ridiculous?

do you want to take hadith as law over the people? ask this yourself Quran 68:36-38- What is [the matter] with you? How do you judge? Or do you have a scripture in which you learn That indeed for you is whatever you choose?

see also Quran 7:185, 45:6, 77:50

have you found whatever you want in hadith bukhari muslim et al?

IMHO, Muslims should understand the Quran first before looking into anything else... that if they believe Quran as the word from Allah.

Annakholat Atastokhdevishizar said...

Pak Yeh,

i understand your plight as i received the very same treatment from these people. they stick to the hadis bukhari muslim and whatnot like hungry leeches. they've abandoned Quran. it makes me wonder, is Quran their ultimate guide from Allah?

sometimes, its futile to argue with them. they said you are a copy paste ulama. but look who's typing. isn't he/ she also a copy paste ulama? it is known that when it comes to Islamic studies, everything is spoonfed; no questions asked or you will be considered as deviant. so they only regurtitate whatever their teachers taught.

they certainly have fulfilled what quran said:

2:78-79- And among them are unlettered ones who do not know the Scripture except in wishful thinking, but they are only assuming. So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

2:170-171- And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided? The example of those who disbelieve is like that of one who shouts at what hears nothing but calls and cries cattle or sheep - deaf, dumb and blind, so they do not understand.

There are 2 or 3 sahih Bukhari about rajm for adultery and one of it came from observing monkey practice. thus they fitted this:

5:60- Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."

muslims love to recite Yasin but they failed to take note of ayat 7-10. so pak yeh it doesnt matter whatever concrete proof you bring, they would still ignore as also said in 31:7

Quran has bring us clear communications (in language we can understand of course) as said in 54:17, 22, 32, 40.

now i am not totally against hadith. but hadith cannot be the basis of law over people. Quran 6:19 said so.

can you take good lessons from fairy tales when formulating civil laws e.g. evil stepmothers must be punished by dancing wearing heated iron shoes as told in the original snow white? isn't that ridiculous?

do you want to take hadith as law over the people? ask this yourself Quran 68:36-38- What is [the matter] with you? How do you judge? Or do you have a scripture in which you learn That indeed for you is whatever you choose?

see also Quran 7:185, 45:6, 77:50

have you found whatever you want in hadith bukhari muslim et al?

IMHO, Muslims should understand the Quran first before looking into anything else... that if they believe Quran as the word from Allah.

pak yeh said...

Salam Annakholat Atastokhdevishizar
Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
May Allah help guide all Muslim to the right / true Islam.
Right now we must continue preaching the true Quran only Islam.
It is the devil disguised as Ulamas that had deceived the Muslims to take Bukhari Muslim as gods beside Allah. Because of that Allah had forsaken the Hadith Muslims all over the world.The are fighting each other (especially Sunni and Shia) and will never fing unity, unless they reject the hadith and the Imam Mahadi mythology.

Din said...

As long as you still observe the five pillars of Islam I have no issue with your writtings.

pak yeh said...

The 5 pillars of Islam need to be Quran compliant. There is no 5 solats aday by 3 solats a day according to the Quran. The hadis corrupts the teaching of the Quran in this case.

DeeDee Farida said...

If people followed the true teaching of Al Quran, all the ularmak and ostard cannot cari makan. They forbid people to use their intelligence to understand Al Quran.