Wednesday, October 16, 2013

A Debate with Anwar Ibrahim on Christian Use Of Allah.

I am debating Anwar Ibrahims article titled "Word Allah is not exclusive to Muslims"
Please refer to the full article at..
I hope Anwar Ibrahim would respond to this debate.

1) Anwar Ibrahim said :
"Word Allah is not exclusive to Muslims"

1) Pak Yehs reply
I disagree.
1.1) Allah is exclusive to Muslim with 1% exception created by Christian mistranslations of the Arab and Malay Bible.
This was designed by the Colonial Powers pf France,Britain and Dutch, in order to divide and rule the Muslims and to undermine the teachings of Islam when Allah is used or more appropriately misused as a Trinity and has a son (Jesus) and a wife and mother (Mary).

2) Anwar said:
But there are a few elements that are not in dispute, chief among them that the God of the Quran is the same as the God of the Bible and of the Torah before it.

2) Pak Yehs reply:
2.1) Correctly said The god of the Bible Old Testament and the Torah is one and the same but with different names. So same but different.
2.2) However he God of the Christians have changed from originally One God to Three Gods.Note Bible Old Testament preaches One God but Bible New Testamentor Gospels preaches three gods. One God and three gods are totally different. Note the Gospel is not a revealed word of god scripture as it is the word and opinion of authors.

3) Anwar said:
The mission of Islam, as expressed in the Quran, is not to bring a new faith, but to update the messages of the monotheistic faiths before it.
It is therefore surprising to see, as The National reports today, that a Malaysian court has ruled that a Christian newspaper may not use the word “Allah” to refer to God. The court overturned a previous decision by a lower court, ruling that “Allah” as a term is not exclusive to Islam. This causes a problem for the country’s substantial Christian minority, who have used the word “Allah” to refer to God for decades.

3) Pak Yehs reply:
You have not debated the judges' decision. Giving a biased opinion without debate is ignorance.

4) Anwar Ibrahim said:
 In a fellow Muslim country with substantial Christian and Hindu populations, this feels like the wrong decision. The UAE....

4) Pak Yehs reply :
Just because the Arabs and Indonesians allow it does not mean it is right for Christians to mistranslate their gods name to Allah. Mistranslation is immoral an a stupid action. Arabs have been colonized by kafir nations and have lost their credibility in Islam,especially with the Quran onlty Muslims. Arabs have Arabized Islam when they created the Hadis which caused the breakup of Islam into many mazhabs, a\A "divide and rule strategy" that put Islamic nations into the hands of kafir nations.

5) Anwar said:
The word “Allah” is never exclusive to Islam – indeed, both Christians and Jews used the word “Allah” to refer to God even before the coming of Islam.

5) Pak Yeh's reply:
Where is the proof.??? There is no Allah in the Torah.!!! There is no Allah in the original Bible.!!!
Mistranslations of the Bible are not proof.s!!!

6) Anwar said:
That remains the case today. When Christians across the Middle East pray to God, they use the term “Allah”. Walk into a church in Cairo, Baghdad or Beirut this coming Sunday and you will hear the name of “Allah” invoked. That also applies to the Jews of the Arab world, who for centuries have prayed to “Allah”.

 6) Pak Yehs reply:
If it is done due to a mistranslation of ther scriptures, the it still is wrong do do so.

7) Anwar said:
 The Quran itself is explicit on this subject, declaring, in Surah Al Ankabut, that Muslims should tell People of the Book (Christians and Jews) that “our God and your God is one”.

7) Pak Yeh's reply:
You are dead wrong here.
The "people of the book" is a reference to revealed/word of god books that subscribe to One God. It exclude Christians who use man's word/Gospels that contradict the One God with Three Gods.
Besides Allah mentions "Nasarani" as "the people of the book". The Christians are totally different religion from the Nasarani mentioned in the Quran.  Christianity is Greek mythology. The O;d Testament Laws and theology are not followed.

8) Anwar said:
The Malaysian decision overlooks not merely the theology, but also the etymology of the word.

8)  Pak Yehs reply:
Ha,ha,ha. We have just debated the theology part and you just ailed it. As for etymology, the issue is a mistranslation of the Bible by the Christians in Muslim countries. 99% of all Christians refuse to use Allah.

9) Anwar said :
The word “Allah” is derived from the Arabic “al-ilah”, the god. It’s found its way across the world and entered Malay from Arabic.

9) Pak Yehs reply:
Are you saying Allah is a Malay word for God.??? The Malay word for god is Tuhan. Christians say Tuhan is Lord. They are wrong. Lord is Tuan. Isnt it all an issue of mistranslation of the Bible.??? You agree with mistranslations.???

10) Anwar said:
Arabic as a language is a vehicle for faith, be that Christianity, Judaism or Islam. The God of the three monotheistic religions is the same god. It is unsurprising, therefore, that all three faiths in the Arabic-speaking world (and beyond) refer to God as “Allah”. And if they have the same God, they should have the right to call their deity by the same name.

 10) Pak Yeh's reply:
The truth remains as...
 i) 99% of Christians do not use Allah. For 1% of Christians in Muslim countries to use Allah is a divide and rule poilcy of the Colonial Powers. You agree with divide and rule of the Muslims. Anwar.???
ii) Christians substituting god for Allah is a mistranslation
Allah is a name/proper noun and god is a noun. Substituting Yaweh the Bible god with Allah requires the permission of Yaweh and Allah. Besides it is immoral to mistranslate and change Gods name.
You agree with changing your god's name Anwar.???
iii) These 1% Christians using the word Allah has managed to blaspheme/dreogate/hina Allah by saying..
a) Allah is a Trinity
b) Allah is Jesus
Allah is a Ghost (same species as Pontianak).
c) Allah has a son out of wedloch/bastard son.
d) Allah has a wife
e) Allah has a Mother.
f) Allah Jesus was killed by Romans.
So Anwar ,you agree with the Christian who derogate/blaspheme Allah.???
Or have you become a Christian.???

Debate Anwar, jangan tak debate.!!!


Anonymous said...

pak yeh is umno stoogers!!!

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh, you do not understand Christianity. The first Holy Bible is written in Hebrew than Arabic, much later in English. Hebrew and Arabic Holy Bible did mention God as Allah, Yaweh, Ilaihim, Jehovah..

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Wed Oct 16, 11:31:00 PM GMT+8

Is it a joke or you are just stupid. Have you not read my articles which condemn UMNO as the Devil Party.???

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Thu Oct 17, 12:48:00 AM GMT+8

Show me the Gospel in Aramaic.!!!
Why are traslations based on Greek or Latim and not the Hebrew version.???Why are Christians deprived of the original Aramaic Bible.??? Because the Priests have changed the true message.???

There are Old testament Bible in Hebrew, I agree. But all translations were made from Greek or Latin the language of Romans. This means that the original Hebrew versions were not used because they have changed the massage. That is the only reason why Christians are deprived of the real originals in Hebrew and Aramaic. All translation were based on Greek,Latin or English translations and not translated from originals. Go look up the wikipedia.

You have no answered my questions..
1) Why mistranslate god, a noun to a pronoun/name Allah.???
2) Which translation is the correct one.The 99% Christian's Bible that do not use Allah or the 1% Christian's Bible that use Allah.???

Anonymous said...

wow mamat janagn berlagak pandai la...baca la original bible jangan perasan la lu mangkuk.

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Thu Oct 17, 08:50:00 AM GMT+8

Bukan mahu tunjuk pandai. Cuma bebahas untok cari kebenaran. Kenapa kamu tidak dapat bahas. Rujuk original Bible.???
Christian sendiri tidak ada Gospel original dalam bahasa Jesus (Aramaic). Yang Christian akui ia lah original Gospel,semuanya dalam bahasa Greek. Gospel Greek tidak guna Allah. Kalau mereka guna Allah kenapa 99% Christian tidak guna Allah.??? Dalam Hebrew original Old Testament pun tidak guna Allah.
Jadi Kristian berbohng lah.
Ha,ha,ha Kamu semua penipu lah.

Anonymous said...

The first time the word "God" appears in the Hebrew Bible, it is in Genesis 1:1, when it states:

Genesis 1:1
B'reshit bara ELOHIM et ha-shama'im, V'et ha-arets.
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

While Christians will forever speculate on the word "Elohim", honest Hebrew speakers would admit that this archaic word for God has a history that is lost to us. The "royal plurality" hypothesis may be a possible explanation for why the word is plural, but this seems to have been unknown to early Hebrew speakers (such as the Jewish missionary who, according to the Kuzari, competed with Muslims and Christians to convert the king of the Khazars in the eighth century). It is difficult however to translate this word to "gods," as the Hebrew text conjugates the verb "to create" in the singular. Regardless, (Elohim) is a plural forum of a more basic root-word for God, (eloh)

However, if one were to find the word (eloh) (alef-lamed-heh) in an inscription written in paleo-Hebrew, Aramaic, or some sort of Nabatean script, it could be pronounced numerous ways without the diacritical marks to guide the reader. This letter combination (which can be pronounced alah) is the root for the verb "to swear" or "to take an oath," as well as the verb "to deify" or "to worship", as can be seen as follows:


The root itself finds its origin with an older root, el, which means God, deity, power, strength, et cetera.

So one of the basic Hebrew words for God, (eloh), can easily be pronounced alah without the diacritical marks. Not surprisingly, the Aramaic word for God is (alah). This word, in the standard script, or the Estrangela script, is spelled alap-lamad-heh (ALH), which are the exact corresponding letters to the Hebrew eloh. The Aramaic is closely related to the more ancient root word for God, eel.

The Arabic word for God, Allâh, is spelled in a very similar way, and is remotely related to the more generic word for deity, (ilah). We are quickly starting to notice the obvious linguistic and etymological connections between the respective words for God in these closely related Semitic languages (e.g. Allâh, Alah, and Eloh being related to Ilah, Eel, and El, respectively).

Also check out on Youtube "The name of God is Allah even in the Bible - Ahmad Deedat". Ahmad Deedat has memorised seven version of the bible and the Quran.

When signing the Hudaibiyyah treaty, the non-believers refused to let the Name of Allah the Most Benificient, the Most Merciful be written in the treaty.

Instead,they use "Bismika Allahumma", which Prophet Muhammad agreed to the request, despite the fact the Meccan non-believers had a different understanding of the word Allah.

Are you suggesting The Prophet himself has no understanding of the word Allah???

pak yeh said...

At last..1 intelligent debater for yhe Christians ans for SAnwar Ibrahim.

I accept your explaination that the Bible Old Testament can use its original or its Muslim version Allah.!!!
A good reason for my stand is its One God theology.

However the New Testament cannot do that...because it contradicts the old testaments version of God ir BiBle Isaiah 43:10,11,12 "I am the only god.There is no god before me and there is no god after me.And I am the only Savior",by having a 1)Three God , 2) a son of god, 3)a Greek like mythology of God killed by man/Romans 4) a mother of god and 5) the words of Priests (the Gospels) as the word of god thus making a million of their Priests too into gods and effectively changing their former monotheist religion to a polytheist religion.
Thus the god of the Gospel Christians is not the same as the god of the Old Testament god, Elohim or Allah.!!!
Thus Christian have disqualified their right to uuse any of the names of god in the Old Testament Bible and also in the Quran.

I hope you Christians can understand that your god is not a monotheist god and that the Bible Old testament god Elohim and the Quran god Allah is no more your god.

But if you reject the Gospels and go back to Old Testament religion, I dont think Muslims mind you changing your gods name from Elohim to Allah. But still I think you should get Elohim's an Allah's permission. And besides changing of names is a mistranslation of your book.


So my stand now is. The Old Testament can s

Unknown said...

pak yeh.....


nama Allah tu predates Islam and Christianity... maksudnya da wujud lebih dari 2000 tahun dahulu...

orang melayu dan asia tenggara tak perlu kecoh2 lah ..... Allah tak marah orang sebut Nya... manusia2 bodoh macam korang, zul nordin, ahli2 politik yang bangang nak pakai Allah untuk terus menipu dan mencuri duit rakyat...itu jer....

you ingat Najib tu peduli ker pasal hal ni, da la mat sial tu kaki perempuan, pembunuh n kaki rasuah...same goes with all those MCA and MIC crooks... its all about the money baby....

pak yeh said...

Unknown said :
nama Allah tu predates Islam and Christianity... maksudnya da wujud lebih dari 2000 tahun dahulu...

Pak Yeh jawab:
Where is the proof in the form of your original Bible or some other book.??? No proof ,no talk lah.!!!

Why does 1% Christians insist on MISTRANSLATION of god to Allah when 99% of Christians are not using Allah.???

Unknown kata :
Allah tak marah orang sebut Nya...

Pak Yeh jawab :
Allah says Christians are disbelievers(kafir).The proof is as follows...
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers".
"They surely disbelieve (kafir) who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve".

Ha,ha,ha. Allah himself say you Christaian are kafir and go to hell!!!

akupun said...

anon is gud..

py, i help u by posting of yr debate to anwar blog, hope he will respond.

btw, his daughter-izzah is too lazy to reply any respon in web or email..(and rafizi ramli and Prof Ramasamy of penang(dap) too, they are just bunch of retard trying to be new age net hero, but fail when tested by users.

go hell with all of 'em
i will create my own party next time.
it will be called: ANONYMOUS
haha,no individual person will show their face,u agenda is more important than ugly face like shahrizad lembu

pak yeh said...

Thank you akupun.
Please help post my debate with MAZA at his blog too.
My gmail cannot comment on both their blogs. To comment maybe gud to have facebook but too many Pak Yeh already on facebook.

Poète Maudit said...

Christians do not worship "three gods". I'm sorry you Muslims are to philosophically unsophisticated to grasp the ontological concepts of ousia and hypostasis.

pak yeh said...

Poète Maudit said...

Christians do not worship "three gods". I'm sorry you Muslims are to philosophically unsophisticated to grasp the ontological concepts of ousia and hypostasis.

Pak Yehs reply.
Christians never speak the truth because their Bible New Testament Trinity Godhead cotradicts the Old Testament Unitarian godhead as per Isaiah 43:10,11,12"I am the only god. There is no god before me and after me. And there is no Savior except me" which means "No Jesus and Holy Spirit as gods". Old testamet has all the laws but New testament breaks all the laws. Its all hipocracy... you say something and you dont do it.... God says something (one god), the Apostles say somethinmg else (Trinity 3 in 1 god).Christianity is hipocracy and idol worshiping of Jesus and worshiping of spirits (the holy spirit) hoy by the Apostles standard. unholy by Gods standard.