Friday, October 18, 2013

Christian Use of Allah : A Debate With Dr.MAZA

 This is a debate or a refutation of  Dr Asri's opinion on the Christian use of the word Allah.

Former Perlis Mufti Datuk Dr Asri Zainul Abidin has warned Muslims that banning non-Muslims from calling God “Allah” is tantamount to “syirik”, which refers to the sin of practicing idolatry or polytheism and is an unforgivable crime in Islam, respected Islamic scholar and former Perlis Mufti Datuk Dr Asri Zainul Abidin has warned Muslims.
Refer the full repot @... l
 http://my.news.yahoo.com/quran-encourages-non-muslims-allah-says-ex-perlis-004700856.html

The Debate / Rebutals
1) Dr Asri said :
“They cannot say, ‘Your god and my god are different. You cannot say the name of my god’,”
“If they say that, then they are committing ‘syirik’,” added the Muslim cleric.

1) Pak Yeh's reply:
I disagree.!!!  The Christian god is totally different from the Christian god.!!! The Christian god is a "Three God",  while Allah is a One God.
 Allah says he is not a trinity and does not have a son. So how can the Christian god be the same god called Allah.???
Proof that Allah does not have ason is as per Quran 5:73 "They surely disbelieve (kafir) who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers." 
Proof  that Allah is not a trinity is as per Quran 5:74 "They surely disbelieve (kafir) who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve."

So Dr MAZA. you are a kafir and a murtad too if you say Allah is the Christian trinity god with a son.!!! Allah said that, not me.!!!

2) Dr Asri said : The Qur’an and the Sunnah allow, and even encourage non-Muslims to use the Arabic word “Allah” to describe God, as long as they are referring to “The Supreme Being”.
 “And if you asked them, ‘Who sends down rain from the sky and gives life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness?’ they would surely say ‘Allah’. Say, ‘Praise to Allah’; but most of them do not reason,” he said, quoting Surah al-Ankabut verse 63.

2) Pak Yeh's reply:
Allah and Muslims do not take offense if Allah is used to denote the Supreme Being by a non Muslims. That is not the issu. The issu is making Allah a trinity and giving him a son.

3) Dr Asri said "
That Prophet Muhammad had told Christians to swear on the name of “Allah”, and not Jesus Christ.

3) Pak Yeh's reply:
That does not mean it is a blanket permission for Christians to say Allah is a trinity and have a son.

4) Dr Asri said:
“What about Christian Arabs who come to Malaysia? Will they be forced to stop themselves from saying ‘masya Allah’ (God has willed it) and instead, replace it with ‘masya God’?”

4) Pak Yeh's reply:
That is not the issu. The issu is the wrongful use of Allah to make him a trinity and say he has a son.
We are talking about A and you are talking about B.
5) Dr Asri said:
“Saying that the ban is absolute is not based on Islamic teachings. What more a statement that makes apostates of those who allow such usage, as if we are making apostates of Prophet Muhammad and of Muslims in the entire world,”

5) Pak Yeh's reply :
Again you are talking about A and we are talking about B. There is no ban on proper usage of the word Allah. But there is a ban on the wrong usage of Allah ie to make Allah a trinity and say he has a son. And using Allah in the Gospel is and should be banned because the Gospel contradicts the One God in the Old Testamentand the One God in the Quran.

So Brother Dr MAZA. Do you agree with a blanket use of Allah by Christians to say that...
1) Allah is a trinity,?
2) Allah has a son named Jesus.?
3) Allah is Jesus.?
4) Allah is a Holy Ghost (same species as Pontianak).?
5) Allah has a Mother (Mary mother od god)?
If you dont, then you shoul not allow Christian to use Allah.

I agree with Nooh Gadot that those who allow Christians to use Allah can end up being a kafir.!!!
Note: kafir means people who believe in kufur or falsehood.

So Dr MAZA Please bertaubat. !!!
The same advice is given to Anwar Ibrahim, Raja Petra Kamaruddin and Dr Abdul Aziz Bari  who have openly opposed the Apeal Corts judgement. Maybe they should be jailed for contempt of court eh.? Maybe the Shariah Courts should  put them in rehabilitaion, eh?

32 comments:

Harun din said...

Awak saorang engineer yang tak terima hadith.
Itu murtad namanya.
Awak percaya sembayang tiga waktu
Dan awak tak sembayang.ini dosa besar.murtad.

pak yeh said...

Salam Harun Din,
Nak bahas isu ini sila ka rencana yang tepat dan bawa nas2 Quran banyak2. Kalau macam ni punya bahas eloklah pegi belajar tadika sahaja.

Untok 3 solat sila bahas kat ...
http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2012/12/muslim-mesti-jawab-soalan2-ini-sebelum.html

Untok "hadis ban/burn" sila bahas kat...
http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ban-burn-of-hadis.html

Anonymous said...

Hullo sir, the Koran and the Bible like all old books are based on many wrong assumptions about the world. Why do you persist in perpetuating falsehood? If the religion is true, why can't it stand to be criticized or debated? Only things that are false or useless must be protected by threats and force. If the Malays or anybody else are going to move forward, we need all our energy to focus on the data coming out of CERN for a start. The Thais have already made the move.

Anonymous said...

Saudara Harun Din,
Menuduh Pak Yeh atau Muslim lain kafir perlu bijak memberi bukti Quran. Tanpa bukti Quran untok buktikan kafirnya orang lain, kamu jatuh kafir.

Pada masa ini kamu sudah kafir kerana tuduh Pak Yeh tanpa bukti Quran.

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Sat Oct 19, 10:02:00 AM GMT+8 said:
Hullo sir, the Koran and the Bible like all old books are based on many wrong assumptions about the world. Why do you persist in perpetuating falsehood?

Pak Yeh's reply:
Wrong assumptions.? I agree that wrong assumption or mythology exist in the Gospels. But the Quran does not have any wrong assumptions or mythology. Can you be a bit more intelligent by giving proofs.
Its a waste of time debating with ignorant debaters.
For Atheist like you, you fail to notice that all good laws originate from religions example "Thou shall not kill.Thou shall not steal etc,etc."

Anonymous said:
If the religion is true, why can't it stand to be criticized or debated? Only things that are false or useless must be protected by threats and force.

Pak Yeh's reply:
Sometime you need to kill in order for you not to be killed. But otherwise we debate.Do you not see me debating.? Go to youtube and google Ahmad Deedat,Zakir Naik and many more Muslim debaters.
You must be a very kampong guy non accessible to youtube debates.
You can find Zakir naik addressing science compatibility in the Quran

Anonymous said:
and If the Malays or anybody else are going to move forward, we need all our energy to focus on the data coming out of CERN for a start. The Thais have already made the move.

Pak Yeh's reply:
You talk about CERN when we are 3rd World still colonised to buy things from 1st world..We can only be free if we have undergone revolutions like China,America,Russia etc

mecha_praline said...

apa yang saya faham dari apa yang dr maza jelaskan, semua manusia including who has believe in christianity di ciptakan tuhan yang satu. tuhan yang sama. tuhan yang di sembah muslim juga adalah tuhan yang menciptakan non muslim. bezanya the way we worship the god. dalam quran juga sebut yahudi menduakan allah dengan menuduh uzair anak allah. kristian pula menuduh isa anak Allah.

adakah yahudi dan kristian menuduh Allah yang punya anak bernama uzair dan isa ini Allah yang berbeza dari Allah yang disembah Muhammad saw?

@@

pak yeh said...

Salam mecha_praline
Isu in bukan sebenarnya isu nama Allah atau tuhan yang sama. Isu ini adalah menkufurkan/mempalsukan tuhan yang satu pencipta semua manusia dengan salah terjemah "god" kapada "Allah". Akibatnya ialah "plutalism" Muslim boleh masuk gereja dan makan babi.
Keyataan Dr MAZA amat lemah sekali. Aku kira Phd nya kopi o punya.
Jika ada masa saya akan bahas setiap hujahnya dalam bahasa Melayu.

Anonymous said...

Dear Pak Yeh, I have a question for you, can you honestly tell your God that you are 100% sure that you know every single things about the history of both the Bible and the Quran ? Have u ever seen and studied the historical evidence from both religions? How can u simply believe what Muhammad said or what is written in the quran without first questioning it ? Isn't it a blind faith....unless the quran forbid you from asking many questions. Was it angel Gabriel who talked to Muhammad in the cave? Are you sure? Where is the evidence? The quran says so or the hadith...or no no that is circular reasoning? Why should you kiss the black stone? Why everybody kiss it? Why must you shout in your prayer? ( azan) , that contradicts your words ' Allah is great, Allah is great! . If Allah is great you don't have to shout! Allah can even tell what is in your heart without u screaming about it. If Allah is great, meaning to say he can do whatever he wants to within his power....i don' t think it is a big deal for him to become just 3 persons in one. Why limit His power? I don" t it is a big deal for him to have a mother or son? The concept of trinity seems to exalt Allah... but muhammad has insulted God for putting a limit to what Allah is capable of. Allah was willing to relate us through Jesus, his only son because Allah loves us all so much....

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Sun Oct 20, 10:46:00 PM GMT+8 said:
Dear Pak Yeh, I have a question for you, can you honestly tell your God that you are 100% sure that you know every single things about the history of both the Bible and the Quran ?

Pak Yehs reply:
Yes.All that is needed to decide with confidence.

Anonymous said:
Have u ever seen and studied the historical evidence from both religions?

Pak Yeh's reply:
Yes! Not just Islam and Christianity.I have studied all religions too.

Anonymous said:
How can u simply believe what Muhammad said or what is written in the quran without first questioning it ? Isn't it a blind faith....unless the quran forbid you from asking many questions.

Pak Yeh's reply:
I believe what Allah says in the Quran by quesrioning every aspect.. As for alledged sayings of the prophet,the Hadis, I do not believe in it.My stand on this is because of extensive questioning and use of logic.Allah in the Quran forbid blind faith and refer to those who do that as cattle or domesticated animals.

Anonymous said:
Was it angel Gabriel who talked to Muhammad in the cave? Are you sure? Where is the evidence?
The quran says so or the hadith...or no no that is circular reasoning?

Pak Yeh's reply:
If you believe that god or his angels can talk to you and all of mankink, prophets and non prophets,then you will believe it. God talks to me through my tesearch for god in every religion. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IS AN ENCOUNTER WITH GOD/ALLAH HIMSELF.

Anonymous said:
Why should you kiss the black stone? Why everybody kiss it?

Pak Yeh's reply:
Kissing the black stone is not the teaching of the Quran. It is the teaching of the hadis. The hadis implants paganism into Islam.We also have an Islam that have been corrupted. Its like the 2nd book of man (Hadis and Gospels) corrupting the book of god(Quran and Old Testament Bible).

Anonymous said:
Why must you shout in your prayer? ( azan) , that contradicts your words ' Allah is great, Allah is great! . If Allah is great you don't have to shout! Allah can even tell what is in your heart without u screaming about it. If Allah is great, meaning to say he can do whatever he wants to within his power....

Pak Yeh's reply:
The azan is shouted because it is fuctioning as a Christian bells to call people from afar to pray.

Anonymous said:
i don' t think it is a big deal for him to become just 3 persons in one. Why limit His power? I don" t it is a big deal for him to have a mother or son? The concept of trinity seems to exalt Allah... but muhammad has insulted God for putting a limit to what Allah is capable of. Allah was willing to relate us through Jesus, his only son because Allah loves us all so much....

Pak Yeh's reply:
It is not a mater of whether god can be a trinity of have a son. It is a mateer of god being derogated when you make him a third of his Godhood and that he has a son called god who dies killed by RomansThat really insulted god.!!!.
You are using dogma and nonsense(illogic) to defend your religion.
Bible Old Testament, god; says in Isaiah 43:10,11,12 "I am the only god. There is no god before me and there is no god after me. And there is no Savior except me."
As such there is no Jesus as god. There is no Holy Ghost as god. God is so powerful that he does not need other gods.
But the Gospel,which is the words on man and authored by Priests CONTRADICTED YOUR ONE GOD WITH MANY GODS AN GREEK MYTHOLOGY OS SON OF GOD< KILLED BY ROMANS.

So Please do not insult Allah who is not the name of your god in your original Bibles and also in 99% of Bible translations.

I hope this debate will help you understand Islam and your own religion.

May Allah guide you to the truth.
Thank you for your questions.

Mr.Apis said...

hebat hujah2 pokyeh ni...maknanya bukan dr asri saja kena taubat, dr zakir naik, ahmad deedat, yusof qaradhawi pun kena taubat...yang tak payah taubat hanya pokyeh saja...tahniah pokyeh...lama sikit lagi boleh jadi next ayah pin...keep it up!

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh...before u start giving your baseless and biased statements towards other religions...Can you give us solid evidences that your holy quran is truly from the one true God? In yoir answers plz do not tell us : 1st- that the quran says so, 2nd - that u believe angels and God can talk you and the iliterate muhammad, 3rd- do not quote from the Bible or any other scriptures or even the hadis. WE WANT HARD AND PHYSICAL EVIDENCES, SOMETHING WE CAN LiSTEN SUCH AS THE VOICES OF ANGEL GABRIEL TALKING TO MUHAMMAD. YOU MAY THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE BUT IF ALLAH IS GREAT HE MUST BE ABLE TO PRODUCE SUCH EVIDENCE FOR US WITHOUT HURTING US LIKE WHAT THE ANGEL GABRIEL IN YOUR BOOK DID TO MUHAMMAD.

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Thu Oct 24, 04:14:00 PM GMT+8

I and all Muslim have all the evidence you need.1st evidence the Quran has no contradictions lake the Bible Gospel.

If you are looking fo Angel Gabriel or Allah I suggest you take the Sufi path. It is a long road and depend on how smart you are. If you cannot see a god now, then you are too stupid to proceed. Your fate then is to be an atheist. Kah,kah,kah.

pak yeh said...

Salam Mr.Apis,
Kamu ada pakai otak ke.?
Saya tidak larang kalu Bible Old Testament guna Allah, sebab mengikut Old Testament Bible tuhan cuma ada satu.

Tapi Bible Gospel(bukan wahyu tuhan,tapi kata2 manusia) trinitykan tuhan Yaweh mereka dan beranak kan tuhan mereka. Ladi Yaweh bukan lagi tuhan mereka. Kini mereka ingin trinitykan Allah dengan cara...linguistic,, dengan salah terjemah "tuhan" ataupi "god" kapada Allah. Ini salah terjemah dan perlu di bretulkan.
Isu nya salah tewrjemah dan isunya bukan kegunaan Allah. Ada faham>???

Satu lagi ..Zakir Naik tidak benarkan Keristian guna Allah untok tukar maana Allah dengan trinity dan anak tuhan. Rujuk Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ3vtQSESPQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYP15UOQ1mk

Saya belum rujuk Ahmad Deedat lagi. Tapi saya yakin Ahmad Deedat juga tidak benarkan Kristian guna Allah untok trinitykan Allah dan salah terjemah "god' kapada "Allah"

pak yeh said...

Salam Mr Apis.
Ahmad Deedat telah di bukti salah oleh Christian.
Ahmad Deedat tidak baca sejarah. Dia main tembak sahaja.
Sejarah buktikan bahawa Bible Arab adalah salah terjemahan dari Gospel Greek ataupun Latin.

Rujuk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIbRonqvY60

Anonymous said...

Do you guys really believe that the quran represent the mind of God Almighty ? If Allah of the quran is so great why must he sent Angel Gabriel to talk to Muhammad, why not by himself to do the talking? If Allah is so great why his creation seems imperfect ? What is the point of your Allah's creation if he knows exactly that you will be doomed to hellfire ? Did you ever hear with your own ear that God says, pak yeh my name is Allah and I am your creator and kill those who go against me ? Did you ever listen with your own ears that God says to you, my dear pak yeh the quran is the only true and holy book for mankind ? Did you ever listen with your own ears God says, pak yeh bear witness that muhammad is my messenger ? Why Allah the all knowing God unable to tell that muhammad was actually a person who did not know how to read? After all all the things you know about your Allah is from what you have read but not something you listen directly from God. Since you were born muslim, the emotional attach has always been with you.

obakh said...

Pak yeh, dlm youtube, zakir naik kata kristian mmg boleh guna nama Allah, dia hanya larang pengamal gospels yg terdiri dari banyak versi churches kini. Ada faham ka....

obakh said...

Pak yeh, dlm youtube, zakir naik kata kristian mmg boleh guna nama Allah, dia hanya larang pengamal gospels yg terdiri dari banyak versi churches kini. Ada faham ka....

obakh said...

Pak yeh, dlm youtube, zakir naik kata kristian mmg boleh guna nama Allah, dia hanya larang pengamal gospels yg terdiri dari banyak versi churches kini. Ada faham ka....

pak yeh said...

Zakir Naik tidak galakkan Christian guna Allah untok trinitykan Allah. Dengar baik2 apa dia kata.
Isunya adalah salah terjemah tuhan kapada Allah dan menjadikan tuhan Jesus menajadi Allah Jesus.
Isu nya salah terjemah. Ada faham???

Anonymous said...

Saya yakin Pak Yeh benar. Beberapa yg bergelar ulamak spt Dr Maza harus bertaubat kerana pendirian mereka yg merugikan dan mengancam kesucian Islam. Saya sokongan Majlis Ulama PAS kerana pendirian mereka yg menentang penggunaan nama Allah atas org2 Bukan Islam bg menggambarkan tuhan sesat mereka. Semoga ilmuan ilmuan dan ulamak yg ikhlas INI terus dirahmati dan dikasihi Allah s,w,t., serta sentiasa dlm kesihatan dan kesejahteraan serta dipanjangkan umurnya dgn amal-amal yg boleh. Tahniah dan syabas Pak Yen.

Anonymous said...

Pak Yeh sedang berdebat dgn golongan2 kafir dan pada ilmuan Islam yg buta hatinya dan gagal memelihara Islam sebaiknya. Kami sokongan dan doakan Pak Yeh teruskan perjuangan INI hingga akhir Bayar Pak Yen.

pak yeh said...

Terima kaseh Anonymous. Moga ramai lagi yang dapat melihat tanpa "veil"/kabur di mata mereka. Kekufuran membuat manusia buta pada kebenaran.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vGQa-35Xok

Anonymous said...

1- GOD Almighty in Islam and the Bible:

Did you know that Elohim is Allah [1] [2]. The "im" in Hebrew is a majestic plural for GOD Almighty. The root Word is "Eloh". And the more original Jews such as Yemenites and others say Alohim or Alah-im. And when you yourself pronounce it, you do naturally pronounce it with a double "l": Allah. Jews do call Him: Allah-im. Aramaic-speaking people also call GOD Almighty Allah. See the following videos for Biblical references and proofs. Also, pre-Islamic Biblical archeological findings have GOD Almighty as "Allah". So the Original Holy Name for GOD Almighty is not Eloh. It is Allah! Eloh is a Hebrew dialect, which not all Hebrew speakers use anyway. Allah had always been the Original and Universal GOD Almighty even before birth of Judaism, and the existence Hebrew. And Hebrew is a developed language from Phoenician. See the following links:


(Click to play videos)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew


In the Bible, GOD does not swear by His creations. Does Islam's GOD swear by His creations?

The original name for GOD Almighty in Aramaic and Hebrew was indeed "Allah". Allah in Arabic and Aramaic means "The Supreme GOD". Yahweh or Jehovah in Hebrew mean "The Eternal". GOD Almighty's Names are Attributes of Him. They're all the same. They're not just names like "Osama" or "Todd". Jesus by the way used "Allah" when he preached in Aramaic. See the proofs.

Anonymous said...

http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah2.htm

Anonymous said...

pak yeh ni percaya pada quran dan tak percaya hadith sedangkan kedua2nya datang dari mulut nabi mohd saw. pening jugak dengan pakyeh ni. kesemua makhluk dalam dunia ni adalah ciptaan Allah. samada makhluk tu nak percaya Allah itu atau tidak kita tak perlu pening. semua ini biar Allah yang tentukan. Allah suruh kita buat yang baik dan jauh yang dilarang. Allah kita di kita Allah dia di dia. Tak ada sengketa antara kita. Yang kita
tak bagi orang lain sebut Allah apahal. Apakah kita punya hak untuk tak beri orang sebut Allah. Dia nak letakkan Allah itu bagaimana biarlah. Biar Allah yang tentukan kedudukan perkara ini. Nak tanya diri kita, apakah kita dah cukup dengan amal kita yang mana kita sibuk dengan amalan orang lain. perhambakan diri kepada Allah adalah sebaik ibadah dari sibuk mencari kelibat orang.

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Fri Feb 07, 10:34:00 AM GMT+8
God in Aramaic is Elohim. So Christians should use Elohim instead of allah. But that is besides the point. The issue is the mistranslation of "god" to "Allah" in order to say Allah Jesus instead of tuhan/god Jesus. This is important becuz it is immoral or kufur to mintranslate.

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Fri Feb 07, 10:49:00 AM GMT+8
You Christians do not use Araimaic Bibles. Your original Bible is in greek. this also shows that Christianity is a Greek mythology.
Anyway the Aramaic word is Elohim, so use Elohim and not allah. Besides the issue is the misstranslation of "tuhan" to Allah whih is immoral and allows phrases susch as allah jesus instead of tuhan Jesus. Mistranslation is immoral and a sin against god. Changing your gods name is also a sin.

pak yeh said...

Anonymouse Fri Feb 07, 10:50:00 AM GMT+8
The issue is not the use of Allah but the mistranslation of "god" to "Allah" instead of "tuhan". It is immoral and a sin to miss translate a so called book of god. Besides the meaning is l;ost. tuhan Jesus is called Allah Jesus, which is never happened to the names of the Bible god Yahweh or Elohim. Why not you Christians use Elohim then.

pak yeh said...

Anonymous Sat Feb 08, 12:59:00 PM GMT+8
Memang benar Quran dan Hadis keluar dari mulut nabi. Tapi Allah halakan Quran dan haramkan hadis. rujuk Quran 31:6 "Ada orang guna lahwal hadis untok sesatkan orang lain dari jalan Allah(Islam),tanpa pengrtahuan, dan jadikan nya (jalan allah/Islam) bahan ketawa."
Lagi pun hadis telah di ban/haramkan oleh nabi dan sahabat nabi rujuk http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ban-burn-of-hadis.html

Anonymous said...

I'm sure pak yeh & the abovementioned anonymous who have to do the tawbah first rather than telling others to do it.
Well, its kinda obvious that u guys so ignorant in this matter. And its useless to debate with the ignorants.
Please,please do the tawbah and go back to Al-Quran and Assunnah if u call yourselver Believer.
Putting your own logic first above everything will make you lost and leads u to Hellfire. Nauzubillah

pak yeh said...

Anonymous said : Putting your own logic first above everything will make you lost and leads u to Hellfire. Nauzubillah

Pak Yeh's reply:
What you are saying is lahwal hadis. The Quran tells you to put logic/ akal above every dogma by Ulamas and your great grand parents.
That shows how ignorant you are of the Quran. Allah in the Quran says that those who do not use their akal will go to hell..refer Q7:179.and many more ayats.